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Ex-UOM student, I live my passion for programming as a senior associate software engineer. Online for more than 5 years now, yashvinblogs.com has a growing number of visitors and a very encouraging participation rate. This success and the passion for blogging drove this blog among the most popular ones of the island.
 
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• daks

  constitution;)

• http://www.tushal.com Tushal

  Constitution of course. I wonder what’s the big fuss about Macdonald opening there. It’s not as if they are forcing those Iskcon people eating Macdo’s food.

• Mike

  The proposed location of MacDo is at the entrance/exit of the Jumbo Phoenix complex at the road side which is just facing Iskcon. MacDo could have opted to be inside the food court away from Iskcon but I guess that this is no longer a possibility today. Their building is already standing empty and has been the subject of an attack by unhappy people who sprayed the wall and smashed a window. I find it strange that an organization like MacDo did not take into account this issue and opt to be inside the food court at the heart of the complex and well away from the road. I do not believe that MacDo will be able to operate from that location and they will have to rent or sell that building.

• http://faisalmooraby.blogspot.com Faisal…

  It’s not about religion/culture against our freedom. That would be a viscious circle, especially when the state guarantees our freedom of expression, especially our freedom to practice our religion and culture.

  However, I see it differently. It’s between Capitalism v/s Anarchism. Courtesy (e.g from McDo) and respect for someone with a different view gone (e.g from Iskon) are long gone.

• http://ashfaqblog.blogspot.com ashfaq

  C’est ene situation bien grave ki bizen pa pran a la legere. si li vine 1 zaffaire legal ek ki iskcon gagne so proces li pou vine 1 precedent ek nimporte kotsa dans moris, bane mosque pou faire proces pou empeche vende porc pres ek bane mosque, partout kotte ena temple hindou bane vendeur mine frite / riz frite viande par exemple ek tou lezotte commerce ki vande la viande cuite pou bizen lev paker aller. li ene zaffaire tres tres grave ki la plupart moricien pa p pran serieusement. si li vine kumsa bane sinoi pou nepli kav vande porc dans chinatown around jummah mosque !
  dans nou ti pays multiculturel kotte ena dimoune osi ki pena religion nou pa gagne droit impoze lors zotte nou fasson penser. nous bizen less zotte vivre zotte la vie.
  la loi ine bien faire ek iskcon pa kav declare ki li pa konne la loi, li pa ene excuse sa. ine publier notice dans la gazette ek ine ena plaque lors site aber si ena otan devot ki alle iskcon ek sa pou zenne zotte eski zotte pa ti trouver kan batiment la ti p ranzer ? astere ki zotte vine faire cinema ek amene tappeur pou vine kraze vitre tousala.. !!

  Mwa mo penser ki zotte faire sa par mechanceter parski zotte ler montrer ki c zotte ki dirige pays ek zotte kav faire saki zotte ouler. asterla la boug macdo la deza ena 1 terrain ki line paye cher ek line faire ranze 1 batiment lors la ! ki li pou faire ar sa astere!! si zotte ti faire zotte cinema avant ti pou fini trouve 1 solution. Ve dire zotte p faire sa par mesquinnerie ek parski zotte ena moV lesprit !

  Constitution of the Republic of Mauritius should be respected !! sinon dimoune pou coummence viv kuma sovaz dans moris.

• Torpedo

  @ashfaq:
  Bien résumé! Mo bourzwa, domaz ki ou ‘common sense’ li pas aussi ‘common’ kouma ti bizin été…
  Si pa mate ar bann extremis coumsa zordi-mem, dimé pou ena l’anarchie: marchand ambulants illégal dans RHill/PLouis pé deza essaye empess Municipalité execute enn l’ordre la-cour, Association “Taxi-Maléré” (encore enn fois illégal) pe rode force autorité faire “enn lizaz” pou regularise zott situation etc, etc. Abé si sa continuer, nou, bann honett citoyens pou bizin coumence al faire greve de la faim a-kot MRA pou dire li arett faire nou paye tax parski nou pa pe kapaw nouri nou-mem/nou zenfant ou bien ki li contre nou relizion paye tax ki pou servi pou faire bann kiksoz… ek sipaki lezot demagozi similaire ki tou bann illegal pe rode faire nou avaler.
  Sinon, mo cwar ki ISKCON pe rode gagne enn boutt pays-la ziss pou li, kott li kapaw faire so bann activités bruyantes sans ki personne capav dire li kiksoz. Ayo, li bizin bann nouveaux membres pou gagne kass, non? Donc li pou rode vinn en-dehors so boute territoire de temps-à-autre… Pareil couma tous lezott sectes.

• http://rdotexetechmania.webs.com Yowan

  Thats the problem in Mauritius, religious parties think they can do anything they want, Beef is a food and no one can argue about that. Iskon should stop their stupid religious nonsense and concentrate on legal matters
  Mc Do will certainly win this case imho

  [quote]
  and has been the subject of an attack by unhappy people who sprayed the wall and smashed a window.
  [/quote]

  Religious and uncivilized people still rely on Force to attain they objectives, why not simply use legal force to oppose that

• http://nayarweb.com/blog/2011/lightning-fear-hope/ Nayar

  I don’t know how you all define religion. But this is not a fight “Religion vs constitution.” Its “Mafia vs Mafia”

• http://nav007.blogspot.com Navin

  Constitution. No one is forcing anyone to eat from McDo, the food is being prepared and cooked inside. Iskcon devotees don’t need to come into contact with beef unless they actually go inside the fast food restaurant.

  I don’t eat beef neither, but i’ll be a lot happier if it means that i don’t have to travel far to get to a Macdonalds!

• http://equatorlounge.blogspot.com sheran jaddoo

  there is always something wrong with iskcon

  in south africa, where iskcon existed WELL before here in Mauritius (it’s like iskcon mauritius is the grandchild of ISKCON SA), there never was as many rules (created by the devotees here) to respect as there was back in SA..

  there’s like maybe more than 20 iskcon centres just in SA and they NEVER EVER have any problem with McDo, well maybe one or two.. As for the rest, just like Krsna taught his/her devotees, is to respect other religions and to always walk on the path of truth

  Besides, Krsna, just like Jesus, told God resides in us, inside us.. Allah said if you cant come to the mosque, lay a clean nap on the floor and start praying from anywhere you are..

  there’s not really a need to go to temples when you can make a temple out of yourself

  i dont think krsna said to fight with mcdo

  hope the mauritius iskconians realise this and stop downgrading hindus as such

• http://equatorlounge.blogspot.com sheran jaddoo

  there is always something wrong with iskcon

  in south africa, where iskcon existed WELL before here in Mauritius (it’s like iskcon mauritius is the grandchild of ISKCON SA), there never was as many rules (created by the devotees here) to respect as there was back in SA..

  there’s like maybe more than 20 iskcon centres just in SA and they NEVER EVER have any problem with McDo, well maybe one or two.. As for the rest, just like Krsna taught his/her devotees, is to respect other religions and to always walk on the path of truth

  Besides, Krsna, just like Jesus, told God resides in us, inside us.. Allah said if you cant come to the mosque, lay a clean nap on the floor and start praying from anywhere you are..

  there’s not really a need to go to temples when you can make a temple out of yourself

  i dont think krsna said to fight with mcdo

  hope the mauritius iskconians realise this and stop downgrading hindus as such

• Leticia

  @ Sheran Jadoo – thts the spirit!

  “Besides, Krsna, just like Jesus, told God resides in us, inside us.. Allah said if you cant come to the mosque, lay a clean nap on the floor and start praying from anywhere you are..”

• hashilS

  to proceed with development and evolution.. we must sacrifice..
  religion comes from the heart, not from outside!!!

• http://rdotexetechmania.webs.com Yowan

  This is just bullshit, two cents, we live in a different era now, somehow one way or the other we are all exposed to certain things that we are not supposed to be in contact with, but what can we do. i think this is a political saga and the people at iskcon or whatever are just trying to test the limits of the present regime. we know that your votes are needed for the election, but come on grow up. get a life, change your mentality, that old way of thinking is gone, long time ago, do u really want to regress, why don’t you really go and live in huts like our ancestors did.

• Chris

  Hey there,

  Guys, first of all, you’ll agree with me, when theres a Macdo in town, you do smell the food 10 miles away. A smell that tells u to eat there instead of dholl gros poids lacaz.

  People, just imagine a sewage next to your house. That’s really a sad thing. Businessman don’t respect anything. They worship money. And its becoming the same everywhere. You know that. Like Flic en Flac, how come we only get a playground now,remember the space 10years back?

  I’m not saying ISKCON is perfect. But hey,theyve got MACDO even in Alaska! Leave that small space for god’s sake!

  Cow is a sacred animal guys just like any other living creatures on earth. (Like ur dog for ex.) It give birth just like us. And gives us great milk man, Think about It.

  I’m not veg,but I really like ISKCON food. It’s so good and you wouldnt notice your eating vegetables. Plus you know and FEEL its CLEAN.

  Peace.

  PS – Unread and Unhear – Think for yourself

• http://equatorlounge.blogspot.com sheran jaddoo

  Sacrifice is a word that is ambiguous, meaning it has a lot to say about itself. We all sacrifice ourselves for any reason, any; i have a friend who’d walk 1 mile instead of paying for a bus trip to ebene just for an ice cream at leglaciermoderne at rosehill

  Some ppl associate sacrifice with fasting: that’s not true; fasting comes by itself for oneself not for God; God never asked to fast, it’s for outselves !!

  fasting is for the body and the soul and when the need arrives (it’s up to you to accept or refuse your own body or mind’s message but they do send you messages! like smses LOL, e.g. let’s eat just a salad today, nothing more when you’re used to mcdos all day… e.g. i feel the need for healthy veggie food without onion and garlic (iskcon makes food without that) so let’s go there

  check my colleague’s place where he lives: a kovil next to a mosque! when there’s bakrid or marche sur le feu, ben…. y’a pas le feu, they respect each other and even once in a while engage in humorous conversations when they come across each other on the streets or anywhere, im speaking of the maulana and the tamil pandit!

  iskcon does not realise that by being friendlier and being more accessible to people, they will definitely attract a larger audience, especially if they have mcdo near them..

  what about at qb, la bonne marmite (special krsna food) in between two chinese bars ?? (pork and beek snacks with rum and whiskies)

  Without (in a way of saying things) forcing hindus or indian-looking mauritians to buy krsna books (check how the devotees at orchard centre try to sneak in the books inside your shopping bag on a sunday morn and whilst saying loads of good stuff about krsna n when you decide to go, they call and say HEY YOU DID NOT PAY! for wat? THE 3 KRSNA BOOKS IN YOUR SHOPPING BAG, IT’S A CURSE ! i saw ppl in the end pay but hell no for me ! i didnt ! ar moi nooooo… )

• http://equatorlounge.blogspot.com Equator Lounge

  Yashvin is doing a great job at being explicit and writin stuff open to issues that can be resolved in a jiffy but instead of in a jiffy, ben… ya beaucoup de fifi…

  Sacrifice is a word that is ambiguous, meaning it has a lot to say about itself. We all sacrifice ourselves for any reason, any; i have a friend who’d walk 1 mile instead of paying for a bus trip to ebene just for an ice cream at leglaciermoderne at rosehill

  Some ppl associate sacrifice with fasting: that’s not true; fasting comes by itself for oneself not for God; God never asked to fast, it’s for outselves !!

  fasting is for the body and the soul and when the need arrives (it’s up to you to accept or refuse your own body or mind’s message but they do send you messages! like smses LOL, e.g. let’s eat just a salad today, nothing more when you’re used to mcdos all day… e.g. i feel the need for healthy veggie food without onion and garlic (iskcon makes food without that) so let’s go there

  check my colleague’s place where he lives: a kovil next to a mosque! when there’s bakrid or marche sur le feu, ben…. y’a pas le feu, they respect each other and even once in a while engage in humorous conversations when they come across each other on the streets or anywhere, im speaking of the maulana and the tamil pandit!

  iskcon does not realise that by being friendlier and being more accessible to people, they will definitely attract a larger audience, especially if they have mcdo near them..

  what about at qb, la bonne marmite (special krsna food) in between two chinese bars ?? (pork and beek snacks with rum and whiskies)

  Without (in a way of saying things) forcing hindus or indian-looking mauritians to buy krsna books (check how the devotees at orchard centre try to sneak in the books inside your shopping bag on a sunday morn and whilst saying loads of good stuff about krsna n when you decide to go, they call and say HEY YOU DID NOT PAY! for wat? THE 3 KRSNA BOOKS IN YOUR SHOPPING BAG, IT’S A CURSE ! i saw ppl in the end pay but hell no for me ! i didnt ! ar moi nooooo… )

• Bhooks

  ISKCON is the one that needs to pack off. They don’t respect others

• hashilS

  i agree Bhooks.. u rite

• Bernardo

  The smell of their vegetarian food has always in-convened me and prevented me from enjoying greasy-heart-stopping KFC.

  I should bring them to court!!

  B.

• Sarah

  @Chris:

  YOU consider it sacred!! Be veg if you like animals this much!!
  We choose who we want to be and what we want to eat!
  Why does it bother you

• fred

  What about KFC, it smells just horrible and Mcdo, i never smell anything from them, they are not complaining about the KFC that is just some meters far from mcdo.

• mn

  Constitution.
  Si coum sa al dans bois…laba au moins zot pas pou gagne okene lodeur, contact ar beef. Ridiculous

• http://reenadkl.blogspot.com/2010/09/my-iphone-4.html ReenaDKL

  @Tushal:

  exact!

• http://reenadkl.blogspot.com/2010/09/my-iphone-4.html ReenaDKL

  @sheran jaddoo:

  very well said!

• marissa

  @ Chris

  i kinda hate their veg food actually.

  and really, who are they kidding?!

• http://reenadkl.blogspot.com/2010/09/my-iphone-4.html ReenaDKL

  I would like to add that protesting won’t do anything…it’s not like Mauritius is full of only vegetarians…pfff!!!

  When I fast Michel eats non-veg and we even go out to buy some steak etc for him…it did not influence me in whatsoever way…

  As long as you know who u are inside…the outside world is just pfff!!!

• yt

  mo 1 mauricienne avant lerla mo 1 hindoue. iskcon c plito 1 secte :/..
  mone pass par 1 experience kine fer moi mett enta point dinterrogation lor iskcon. ek mti conten partaz sa ek zot.

  tou les mardi ek vendredi – jour bazaar vacoas (oui mo res vacoas) ziss sa deux jour la ena plin dimune dans vacoas- ena deux tifi deboute emba magasin- zot demand largent o nom de krishna- soidisant 1 donation. mais bon a la longue li vine 1 form de begging!mais certe mo papa tou les temp done zot around r5-r25
  mo deman moi ki zot fer ek cass ki zot gayer. pas fini pendant karem durga nawmi, 1 jour moi ek mo papa nune al decide pu al dans sa truc resto iskcon la to buy smthn veg- grande eT notre surprise ban dimune ki ”travay” laba zot bien foutant ek pas acceuillant ditou!!!

  alor comme bhooks p dire- iskcon lev paker aller! ena plin lezot place encore cuma lor montagne vallee des pretres etc kot zot kav prier en toute sereniter ek dans verdure loin de pollution etc!!!!!!

  aussi: vers 14-15hr nimporte kisanla pass devant phoenix beverages (ki vis a vis iskcon) zot pu senti 1 lodeur forte de ‘beer brewering’- mo deman moi si sa lodeur la pas fatig zot ://

• Chris

  @ Sarah

  Hi Sarah,
  Woh,that was a direct shot. lol.
  This is not about me, through it could,by analogy it has, for ex. some years ago I had one of my neighbours who started poultry farm next to my house, it did suck a lot. Like the smell and all.

  What I wanna say is to step in the shoes of the other person. Why? Because else it dont make any sense.

  Peace

• my 2 cents

  Hey Yowan

  Who are you replying to. You copy your comment from defimedia and post it here. “my2cents” didn’t comment on this blog.

  And anyway whatever you said, be it here or in defimedia, does not make any sense. Please, try to convey your point more clearly for the benefit of the readers.

• Bhooks

  @yt
  You said it all.

  I who don’t pray. Go to Grand Bassin every January 1st accompanying my wife and kids. There are always ppl asking for donations. Irritating. I see myself being approached 5 to 6 times this year. I blasted all of them. Its always about building a new temple as if there are not enough in MU.

  To my surprise ISKCON too was there. Wonder why as they gather money the whole year around. They are to be found in all town every day of the year. For me they are the greatest disturbance, I down want to see them wherever I go. If I want to go to Mc Do. I know where I should drive’ but ISKCON they kind of harass you every now and then.

  And yes someone talked bout the service at Govinda. Pathetic not a smile not a good morning. They’ll only reply to hare krisna. ANother great annoyance from them is again at Grand Bassin for the maha shivratree now and then they will put all out with their music and sing to krisna and rama. I thought the Maha Shivratree was the night of Shiv. There are such a bug in the society. Not only in MU. Seen them with 500+ ppl walking on oxford st singing and collecting money and selling stuffs.

  AND yes their devotees only hang around among themselves. What a fucking pain they are. Wonder what they talk about.. perhaps how to collect more money.

  Cheers
  B.

• Mike

  @yt: Good point here, Phoenix brewery is close to Iskcon and you can smell the hops all around that area. I guess MacDo will use that argument too. Through this affair, I wonder if we are seeing a kind of intolerance growing amongst the various associations. It seems like fundamentalism is growing or at least a sectarianism attitude.

• http://ashfaqblog.blogspot.com ashfaq

  @all,

  I came to think of something that might be of some interest. The iskcon is selling veg food there.and it is the main food seller to its devotees. would the iskcon devotees not be interested in buying veg food from macdo. As far as i know macdo also sells veg burgers. The financial issue is also one point to consider since it would be having a direct competitor just metres away.and since they are so money minded this could be a big issue for them.

• Bernardo

  Excerpt from what looks like an official press release from ISKCON
  (http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/profiles/blogs/hindu-front-against-mcdo):

  They entitled the article “Hindu front against McDo”

  According to Das, the most important point for objection is the smell of food items made from beef and poultry. “This will bother the devotees who are vegetarian,” he said, adding that cow protection is a fundamental Hindu religious principle.

  “The restaurant that proposes to start operations immediately next door to ISKCON is considered a symbol of cow slaughter. It is a prominent visual representative of the exact opposite of what we preach,” said Das.

  ISKCON is working on a mega project where a new temple will be built. “This temple will be next to the new McDonald’s restaurant and only 34 metres will separate the two buildings. We are only asking that the new restaurant be relocated inside the food court,” he said.

• http://reenadkl.blogspot.com/2010/09/my-iphone-4.html ReenaDKL

  Thinking of it…what if KFC paid ISKCON a huge money just to harass McDo?

  Coz more than ISKCON, KFC Has direct competition here…lol!!!

• Torpedo

  Manierr ki sa pe aller, zour ki ISKCON pou rode vinn faire tam-tam dans ou la-ri, li pou rode enn l’orde la-cour pou empess ou cuit enn BON rougaille bomli / poisson sounouk frirr dans ou lakaz parski le parfum pou trop tentant :->…
  Bon appétit…

  Enn lott ti-zaferr – commié ‘bon’ hindou zott capav été bann VOH/Kranti/Sipaki ki pou vinn mett néné dans sa débat-la: commié membres parmi zott ki vraiment vézétargnien la-dans?

• http://www.yashvinblogs.com Yashvin

  Nice finding Bernardo!

• http://equatorlounge.blogspot.com Equator Lounge

  This is my second email from Sheran Jaddoo
  U se this email for respective purposes, one of which concerns blogging, social networking, forums, etc… that was just so you know: equator lounge is a completely different personality from what i really am in real life

  my only suggestion is to make iskcon devotees turn into diplomatic personalities so that they encourage ppl , non-iskconian ones, to adhere or at least respect them..

  It’s so saddening to see iskconians nealrly or completely tarnishing the reputation and grandeur of almighty krsna

  i hope krsna himself makes them see the light in a world full of hypoocrites and diplomatic ppl, where everything prevails and turn around a capitalism concept, which mauritius will soon turn into (especilly with SAfrincans and other foreigners investing in the country)

  They might find this an obstacle in their processes to make mauritius a better country, financially and internationally speaking

  i want the best out of iskcon, i dont want them to fall into a snakepit where they are all marginal …

• Vaiizard

  I would like to know if whether the odor coming from the beer factory doesn’t importunate the ISKON?

  With the opening of McDo its us mauritian who will obtain jobs there.

  @ everyone saying that McDo should have rent a space insides the food courts. Its McDo who invented the drive thru and it forms part of its corporate identity. As u mus b ware that KFC is already operating a drive thru, so it is “infra-structurally” impossible for the food court to accommodate another drive thru.

  I would like to knw if another third party join in this struggle and voice out that they want McDo to operate. What will happen? This country belong to everybody.

• yt

  you made me laugh torpedo
  i know where the new iskcon will be built.
  but guys this is not a place where temples/mosques/churches can be built. its kinda a commercial place- multiple malls (jumbo/les halles) – condomium – road junctions with a huge traffic jam daily. i had a friend who lived 10 minutes from jumbo- it was a great harrassment with so much vehicles going through day and night.
  i wonder if the noise and air pollution wont be a major disturbance for them!

• http://ashfaqblog.blogspot.com ashfaq

  @yt,

  Nice poooint ! .. How could they blind soo many people !! it was all in front of us !! Commercial place !!

  Iskcon is conning us !! it has nothing to do with religious stuffs..!! it is a commercial place where they sell veg stuffs and where they take money from people in exchange of peace of mind !! lolzz

• u_r_stpd

  i want to open a pig stall in front of your house. how do you feel?
  .
  .
  .
  .
  .
  .
  .
  exactically!

• http://www.yashvinblogs.com Yashvin

  Hi “@u_r_stpd”
  Your name is great lol. You are completely taking a wrong exemple. I don’t think that the authorities will be giving the permits to open a pig stall in a residential area. Anyways, here are some points :

  1. You might not be aware but before opening your pig stall, you need to display a notice and I would definitely oppose to your pig stall. The difference between mac do/iskcon and my case is that I opposed to the construction within the legal delay.

  2. I won’t get hold of Hindu associations round the island to bring more people into the mess.

  3. Most probably, I won’t be damaging your pig stall under construction. I would respect you and your assets.

  4. If I tolerated a “cow shed”(Pour bien suivre to exemple, c la biere) a few meters from my house for years, I will definitely not find any inconvenience to have your pig stall there.

  5. The final judgement will made by court.

  and lastly, I won’t be writing “u_r_stpd” on a “name” field.
  Cheers!

• Bhooks

  Iskcon preach violence.

• http://www.tushal.net Tushal

  @u_r_stpd—> You couldn’t have chosen a better name. LOL.

  And concerning this:

  u_r_stpd said:
  i want to open a pig stall in front of your house. how do you feel?

  Too bad. There’s not enough free earth infront or anywhere else near my house. Too bad. Next time, try opening a Macdo. It will be fun.

  Cheers.

• Sun

  To All those who are flaming and saying that they dont see where is the problem : Perhaps you have wrongly understood the subject matter, and i even believe the author wrongly exposed the matter. I do not think eating beef NEAR the iskon centre is the problem. They cant prevent anyone from eating what they want. That would be just plain stupid.

  The real problem is the smell. Since most of the devotees are vegetarian and look up to that place as pure and clean. It wouldnt be nice if it smells macdo there. This is common sense.

  I aint no vegetarian. I aint no iskon devotee. But hey, you are looking from the wrong point of view. Its about the smell. And i believe they have a point.

  Simple analogy, if u hate noise, would u vote for a stone crushing factory to be built in front of your home? Thats it.

  @Yashvin, be kind enough to mention the SMELL in the article as it is very misleading.

  “Mac Donald offers menus including beef while Iskcon devotees (and hindous in general ) pray this animal” ~ this is invalid.

• Bernardo

  How in the world is a pig stall similar to McDo?
  A pig stall could be compared to a chicken or cattle stall but how can someone compare a fast food outlet to an animal stall? That sheer nonsense.

  This u_r_stpd is either plain stupid or trolling the discussion.

  Please good people, do not feed the trolls!

• daks

  @u_r_stpd
  you are really stupid LOL to have taken such an example

• Bernardo

  @Sun, please read the official and original ISKCON statement at http://www.iskcondesiretree.net/profiles/blogs/hindu-front-against-mcdo

  On their own blog, they are complaining about “Symbolism” and “Visuals”. Their emphasis was on “Cow protection”, they did not talk about smell issues.

  Yashvin’s article is on the point, you’re not.

• Maverick

  Vladimir Lenin, King Tut and the McDonald’s Happy Meal: What do they all have in common? A shocking resistance to Mother Nature’s cycle of decomposition and biodegradability, apparently.

  http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20101012/bs_yblog_upshot/mcdonalds-happy-meal-resists-decomposition-for-six-months

• http://mauricianismes.wordpress.com Siganus Sutor

  Chris on 27 January 2011 at 5:03 pm — “Guys, first of all, you’ll agree with me, when theres a Macdo in town, you do smell the food 10 miles away. A smell that tells u to eat there instead of dholl gros poids lacaz.”

  In that case the people in McDonald could argue that the smell of incense is mingling with the smell of the food they are eating and is spoiling their pleasure. It should work both ways, shouldn’t it?

  By the way, what would be an “acceptable” distance? I’d say there is around 300/400 metres between the McDonald building and the Iskcon building. What kind of radius would be okay? 1 km? 5 km? 10 km? 50 km? This is becoming tricky because it depends on purely subjective arguments. If I, as an individual, live 500 metres away from Hare Krishna Land, as it is called, would I be allowed to cook meet in my home? Why apply it to one (McDonald) and not the other (me)? Law isn’t supposed to discriminate between various parties.

  But it’s true there is indeed a minimum (even if subjective) distance to be respected between people and what they may be regarding as pollution (be it noise pollution, visual pollution, atmospheric pollution and so on).

  •

  Yt on 28 January 2011 at 8:33 pm — “this is not a place where temples/mosques/churches can be built. its kinda a commercial place- multiple malls (jumbo/les halles) – condomium – road junctions with a huge traffic jam daily. i had a friend who lived 10 minutes from jumbo- it was a great harrassment with so much vehicles going through day and night.
  i wonder if the noise and air pollution wont be a major disturbance for them!”

  Every now and then there is a huge gathering at Iskcon and there are cars parked everywhere along the (main) roads, on the various roundabouts and elsewhere. This is certainly good for Iskcon marketing, but not so good for the citizens who have nothing to do with them. Has anybody protested about this so far? Has any windscreen been smashed?

  •

  BTW, hier enn kamrad ti pé dir moi ki chef Iskcon li enn blanc, enn boug kinn sanz so nom pou faire li vinn enn nom hindou. Vrémem sa ?

• Nikhil Mungur

  Yeah i agree ISKON is a religious society..but how the hell is Mc Donald gonna cause inconvenience to their devotees?
  They kinda need to grow up a lill’ bit…they ppl @ mc donald aint going to eat in the premises of ISKON or whatsoever…

• Torpedo

  Wai, mo extra envie trouve ça match-la zouer dans la-cour… Lerla nou ava guetter how and where nou bann juges pou ‘draw the line’…

• Dvil

  kuma mo ti meT lor ene lot site.. mo krwra lexpress… dan rose hill kot mosque ena 2 restaurants chinois et zot vane pork. mo pas trouV kifer banla bizin faire ene tas palabre pou mcdo..et pas premiere fois sa . kan mc do ti p ouvert premiere fois ti ena ene rumeur ki zt ti p rode ouvert la bas meme zot

• Tam

  Reply to yt: It’s definitely impolite and bad if they have been foutant with you at Iskcon resto. Other people too have complained about this. I hope Iskcon authority take this into consideration and train those who work there with good manners.

  I personally know many devotees, and the girls who stand at Vacoas. They come from respectable families and they have good educational background. What is more remarkable is that they always give at least a sticker, if not a book most of the time, for even a small donation. I understand your hurt feeling, but to compare this to begging is not fair. This is their service to the temple.

• yasser

  Hi…moi mo croire bizin fer un apel ouvernment et demand un terrain lor un montagne parla parla pou isCON, pou banla kpav fer zot activiter…..mo pas croire lor montagne pou en restaurant pou ouvert pou dead meat burger….

  au lieu zot promote development zot p met baton dan laroue….boug McDo la in investi gros….

  laisse mo dire zot ki ena lot resto dan Phoenix les Halles et un gros la brasserie just a coter isCOn, mais sa zot pas ale protester sa……

  tou ban saki content manz chips et rounder, ki zot dire ban camarades…..

• jp

  If it was for smell, what about Port Louis? Hundreds of smells combined together from various sources: wastes, vehicles, buildings, restaurants, hawkers, etc.. In the same place, there are a lot of religious centers, places, buildings (or whatever you want to call them) which sit tight together and really, no one cared for years about their proximity.

  What is wrong imho is the fact that no legal procedures were used but just plain violence against a building and I just question any philosophy/movement who called themselves religious, that use violence in any form to voice out their frustrations. I don’t think this is religion at all in that case.

  Many in the thread talked about respect, how would you feel if you had the legal approval to build something and operate as a business, then see your building burn before it is even launched?

• satianand

  Tou bann dimoune ena droit pour vive. mais bann zanimos ausi ena droit pu zotte vive. La compassion ce enn qualite ki humain bizin posede.si nou pe coz enn pay multiracial. nou bizin ausi considere bann zanimo ki ausi ena droit pu vive. mo pense pass ausi ki nou ena problem de cohabilitation . tou dimoune pe vive bien et sa issue la li pena aucun aucun aquisation contre lezotte comunote. li seulement enn protestation contre mac donalds ki juste pres avec enn temple. sa bizin respecte. pena objection si li ouvert a linteriuere de jumbo.iskcon propage la non violence, la compasion, lamour pour tou le monde.iskcon pas racist. iskcon ce enn society ki dirige beaucoup bann dimoun dans la bonne voix. iskcon ena 4 principes.1. pa prend lalcol avec intoxication.(2) pas gamble.(3) pas engage dans la sexualite illegal.(4) vegetarien. Iskcon croire ki ena enn seule Dieu ki etan le createre de tous le monde. Dieu li papa de tous le monde. Comment eski nou capave content dieu et deteste les autre enfants de dieu. li pa possible.

• kevin

  well its sounds so spicy to see some people being being tormented for a petty dead animal flesh eaten by jacal like animalistic humans.
  Indeed, i bet non of you really knows the facts and just talking out of blue. While speaking distance as one was saying it is not even 100m and for your kind information its 34m!! Some1 was speaking of permit?? well if you could do your homework then you would know that they never advertised for Mc Donald resto but am sure you too ignorant for you to know.
  its pity to see how you guys relish this event.
  Anyway you are wat you eat so ..

• http://ashfaqblog.blogspot.com ashfaq

  @kevin – so what if it is 34m ?? In MAURITIAN LAWS, buildings should be separated by 3feet !! which is around 1 metre !! .. pena narier lors 34-50-100metres !! ki to p rode dire ?? bizen mette tou resto 50-100m depi temple ?? ek silvousplait ! bizen less temple la ena resto tout !! xtraordinaire sa ! zamais pane trouver okaine part dans l’ile maurice ki bane place religieux ena business tout !!

  Comier sinoi kontan commerce ! zamais pane trouve sinoi ouvert la boutique kotte pagode !! pane trouve lascar ouvert bryani house kotte masjid !! pane trouve hindou ouvert food court dans ganga talao !! .. nek iskcon ki bizen faire food palace dans iskcon !! aber bonom pa pran dimoune pou couyon !! iskcon c zis 1 bizness ki panvi concurrent ek competition .. !!

  NAPA BLIER KI MACDONALD VANDE MANZER VEGETARIEN !!!

• Prakash

  The war between good and evil so to say has always existed. In the end it’s always goodness which prevails. Where there is Krishna, there will always be victory. But its a big shame that some people don’t even know the reality of their own country they are living. The ISKCON v/s Mc Donald is not just a legal problem. The outcome of this case will strike at the very root of our society. Mauritius has always been cited as a model of democracy, tolerance and respect for others. This has been possible only because our ancestors have laid a very strong cultural and spiritual foundation. Today this foundation is slowly eroding away. We are rapidly losing our values.The newspapers speak for themselves. The Mauritian society does not need more fast-food for the betterment of its citizen, because in the west fast-food culture has brought so many ills to the western society not only in terms of health but also in terms of people character. You are what you eat says the dictum. Slaughtering animals have significantly contributed to Global warming and the destruction of our planet. One more mac Donald means one step further to our own destruction and to our beautiful planet. At least there are some people who want to preserve our spiritual tradition our values which our forefathers have given us and which we badly need today. It’s not a legal problem as many people tend to think but our own future depends upon what we eat. It’s a question of human survival..

• Torpedo

  @Prakash:
  “Slaughtering animals have significantly contributed to Global warming and the destruction of our planet.”
  Slow down, no, slaughtering animals actually reduces global warming. It’s the industrial scale of their rearing that causes global warming. I will refer you to Richard W. Lacey’s “A Brief History of Food” for enlightenment about how US meat industry’s post-war propaganda actually worked, and how a perfectly wholesome 1 serving of meat/poultry/fish per WEEK was hammered into the minds of the people of that time to force them (and us) to believe in 1 serving per MEAL (the bloody bastards!!!).

  Do you remember the guy who exposed his aerial photos on A0 posters at Caudan Waterfront “La Terre VUe du Ciel”? He actually made a documentary about our planet “Home“, and one of its themes was the “usines à viande” in the US: thousands of acres of brown dusty land from afar, the horizon obscrurred by the pink haze of dust/methane, teeming with bulls when given a closer look, fed with monster-lorries pump-spraying them with tons of the best maize available (that guarantees a tender, juicy, and sweet meat) and fresh water (always spiked with an optimum mix of FDA-approved growth hormones, of course) pumped from rivers, that contributes hundreds of times the CO2 that traffic alone generates per day.

  Yes Sir, the carbon-footprint of our small farms are light-years behind these meat-factories…

• http://equatorlounge.blogspot.com sheran jaddoo

  concerning iskcon and what lies beneath, you need to watch the zeitgeist for more information about this

• Prakash

  torpedo
  Thanks for your comments but you did not understand the little bit when I mentioned slaughtering animals has contributed significantly to global warming. I was actually making reference to the ‘usine the viade’ that you are saying. Do you know the whole process that takes place before that burger ends up in your mouth. Do you know how many acres of forests that are being destroyed in order to breed these animals. If you want to know reality just go and see how many acres of forest remains in England. All of them has become breeding ground for cattle. I hope you understand what I mean now.

• Prakash

  Dear Sheran,
  I would strongly advise you that instead of watching zeitgeist. Its better that you make any opinion in the future based on your own experience not on hearsays. Religions today so to say has become an economic race. Billions are being poured to destroy your culture, your spiritual identity. Worst your own money and resources and your own people are being used in that process. Just read a little bit of the comments of your own people.

• http://equatorlounge.blogspot.com sheran jaddoo

  hi prakash

  thanks for your reply first of all. and your advice on my wellbeing, im glad to hear this from someone who seems to care a lot about me but thank you.

  you are mixing spirituality and religion which are two completely different things. to tell you about religion and people of ‘my own culture’, ‘culture’ i think is self-defined n each one interprets it based on one’s environment in which one resides. someone can have a spiritual identity and respect and can at the same time pray to our one supreme god, not be religious, but yet be catholic!

  my own ppl ? what are you talking about ? you were mixing spirituality and religion and now telling me to read my ppl’s comments n think this is gonna change for the least in my sense of seeing things in this country ? in this world ?

  if you do not see what im trying to tell you, then i guess you’re another of the blind bats that err fascism and agree to become a cattle-breed to a new world order who does nothing more than feed the hungry oligarchic bankers

• Ushna

  ISKCON is applying for an injunction against the opening of McDo in its vicinity, so looks like we’re soon going to find out who wins! This promises to be interesting, am looking forward to it!

  I dont want to pronounce myself yet, because i dont know all the facts. Though i do wonder how this becomes a battle between religion and the Constitution! Care to enlighten me, anyone?

• http://www.rrikesh.com Rikesh

  @Tam
  i agree with @yt. The Iskon ladies under the “magasins” at Vacoas are a real pain. They stop you, they give you something, then ask for money. I find it quite embarassing for me to dodge them everytime.
  + for the Iskon resto, not only they are not polite, they do not respect hygiene regulations either. Also, the resto is between some other non-veg restos.
  Anyway, I think that Iskon is more a sect than a religious group.

• Ajay

  ISKCON people are also people. They are Mauritians. They have constitutional rights like everyone else. It is so ironic that in criticising them as intolerant, you are also showing intolerance towards them. Let them take Mc Do to court and see if Mc Do actually followed required constitutional procedures or not. Where’s your problem? I think both of them have chance of winning and who loses will have to accept.

• http://www.yashvinblogs.com Yashvin

  @Ajay, did you just say “Where’s your problem?”

  So, I hate seeing religious communities shouting on the roads while Mac Do has everything legal. The concerned minister announced that everything procedures were respected.

  So, if ISKCON are also people, how about the other mauritians? Does ISKCON have more priviledges as other Mauritians? NO!

• luvnish

  Im veg, and Im actually pro-McDo here. Its a way cooler place to hang out, than ISKCON restaurant -_- plus, if iskcon people have resorted to violence, are they really followers of the Gita? :/
  btw, KFC has a way stronger smell than McDo’s… i dont know how that hasnt bothered them for so long >_>

• Ajay

  @Yashvin: No, ISKCON does not have more priviledges than others, but they do they have the same priviledges. The law courts are there for those who feel they have been wronged and ISKCON also has access to them, like we all do. In that sense – I asked what was your problem. You may not like ISKCON protesting and ISKCON may not like you blogging about them but both are legal and both should be tolerated. Thank you.

• Bhooks

  How I long for a quarter pounder. Hope it comes soon @ Phoenix

• http://www.yashvinblogs.com Yashvin

  @Ajay : My problem? They are protesting against the opening of a resto which has followed every legal procedures. Sorry, but the resto is not the one at fault here, they should be protesting against the constitution, against the government!
  btw, they have the right to protest against me blogging this topic. Go on, that will be fun!

  @Bhooks : Looking forward to have a big mac, in Phoenix

• Ajay

  @ Luvnish: Who said that ISKCON resorted to violence? Know your facts before you speak nonsense.
  KFC is not even visible from ISKCON.

• Mike

  Well it seems that McDo followed the correct procedures and Iskcon had the opportunity to place an objection when the legal proposal was printed in the newspapers. Iskcon did not and their objection comes after the fact, so, too bad for them they had their chance.

• Ajay

  @Mike: I live in a residential area. If any development is to be made in my vicinity the law stipulates that it is not enough to put up a notice or to advertise in the newspapers. I must personally receive a notice to which I have 28 days to object to the development. That is my constitutional right as a resident in a residential zone of Mauritius. I think it should have been similar in ISKCON’s case. It is not so easy to comment without knowing all the facts….

• Torpedo

  @Prakash:
  Wai, ti pe (essaye) prend nissa ar ou phrase so tournure… Only this, No pun intended.

  In any case, industrial manufacturing of everything has spoiled this planet beyond repair – in my opinion: just try to read the end-of-year dissertations made by UoM students of the Faculty of Science/Engineering and you’ll see monstruous things that have already befallen our resources without any reaction/investigation from either the authorities or the NGO’s. It seems (it is in fact glaring) that everyone seems content of the economy without a single thought about the tomorrow that they’ll be leaving for their children.

  About meat: weaning yourself off (red) meat may actually be beneficial because of so many risks to your own health Рstomach cancer outbreaks bizarrely coincide with the surge in consumption of red-meat steaks. Mais tank ki marketing sa bann produits-la continuer, mo cwar ki canc̩rologue tousel ki pou contigne gagne la-vie.

  About McDo. @Yashvin: @Bhooks:
  Eh ou la vouzott: pena enn McDo deza en operation dans Harbour Front building: ki zott pe attann ?? Ou bien li’nn fermer?

• http://www.yashvinblogs.com Yashvin

  @Torpedo: Nissa la pas pu pareille! Fete la victoire du bien lo bane esprits malades

• Torpedo

  Hein, ala enn ti cible pou bann pro-McDo attaquer: Allez, ATTAAAAAACK!!

  

• Thav

  If you are inclined to be religious, the greatest religious teacher
  the world has ever known made the way so plain that all may
  follow. If your mental bias is toward physical science, the law will
  operate with mathematical certainty. If you are inclined to be
  philosophical, Plato or Emerson may be your teacher, but in either
  case, you may reach degrees of power to which it is impossible to
  assign any limit.

• Sagitarius

  Maybe ISKON should win . It must be terrible for a vegetarian to look at the kari gropwa and konfitir margoz on his plate , while salivating with thoughts of juicy rounders . This is pure mental torture and we should sympathize with them . Specially as vegetarians have lowered mental strength due to vitamin B12 deficiency .

  I definitely prefer dal puri[without gro pwa] to Mac Do and KFC stuffs .Knowing I’m on their side ISKON might serenely consider this : why don’t they counter-fast ,so to speak ,and put some meat on the table once a week . A serving of bull’s liver [make sure it's not cow's liver] the size of 4 La Vache Qui Se Marre triangular portions provides enough B12 vit. for a week and taste much better than the artificially fortified food some vegans use to avoid animal source of the vitamin .

  For some one who is vegetarian to the core even the fortified food might be a problem . Vitamin B12 wether from animal or vegetable source is actually a microbe . A microbe is , so to speak , a primitive form of animal life .

  Well ,finally : no , ISKON should not win . Although I don’t like Mac Do , I’d say if they lose on this issue we all lose . We should not let our way of life , or our degree of free will be determined by fundamentalists from any religion .

• Prakash

  Hi sheran,
  Thanks for your comments. Probably you don’t know that the so called blind bats are very intelligent and social creatures. I think you have missed the point I am making and you are completely off-track in your analysis. Put it this way, I am showing you the moon but you are looking at my finger. You will sure missed the glory of the sky.

• http://equatorlounge.blogspot.com Sheran Jaddoo

  So.. Prakash, the Mauritius Batman oO

  Can you be more explicit and start justifying because you were simply criticising my comments and not explaining anything to me !! no justifcation being addressed to me, right ? I seriously still did not understand what you meant by not watching the zeitgeist. You are still mixing religion and spirituality. that’s all I could understand by your comment, majorwise. And before you say anything (beyond your own finger), please make sure that you reeeaaad all my comments on the blog, especially fasting, sacrifice, spirituality and religion (which you still have not answered my question on this) the behavioural attitudes of some devotees and their mindsets, etc..

  Aller, Go ! Go our Local Finger Batman, Go !! Let’s go see the moon on your Mauritian Batmobile make me see your reason of getting personal!! in my opinion, you seem to be someone if not on the moon, you’re on the sky, jamais sur terre. Réveilles-toi!!

  krgds

  ps: thank you for your introduction on bats, that was FASCINATING !! =D

• http://equatorlounge.blogspot.com Sheran Jaddoo

  Sagitarius !! dunno what to say

  I agree to power of freewill unaffected by ethical decisions.
  Utterly Agree!

  it’s your point of view and like any other point of view and being scientific by nature, there is reason in what you are saying, not totally however it’s substantial

  but as to the B12 deficiency and meat on their table once a week, urrrr…. urrrrr now that was what I’d say “totally in their face” and that’s not nice, bro !

• Prakash

  Dear Sheran,
  I am just reading about your comments and I just came around one sentence. That you may not be religious yet be catholic. If you are equating spirituality with catholicism, that is probably you views your standard of spirituality or probably you are seriously mistaken in your analysis. Without being offensive to anyone or to any religious group. If you are speaking about catholicism as meaning the catholic church or its head Quarters in Rome. Then probably you are not much aware of the scandals that has been assoaciated with the catholic church. Firstly Slavery then colonialism, iquisition forced conversion and recently paedophile priests. If that is what spirituality means in your vocabulary, then you would neither understand about the sacredness of animals life, purity of a place of worship which Iscon is claiming nor about my story about the difference between looking at my finger and the moon. Yes for your information I am still on this earth and I am sure that I have seen the world much better than some of you. Unfortunately many of you have equated the world with your tiny island. Like the frog who thought that the world is not bigger than the pond of water. By the way you can only be truly spiritual unless you have a good religious foundation or else you might end up as a paedophile priest.

• yurit0s

  McDo 1 – 0 Iskcon

  la cour in trancher. McDo capave go ahead, pena aucun raison ki faire li pas capave open.

• http://www.yashvinblogs.com Yashvin

  I heard that HRHK people do not eat Onions and “l’aile”.

  Will they go to court if someone plans to cultivate onions or l’aile around their buildings? :S

• http://equatorlounge.blogspot.com Sheran Jaddoo

  lol
  onions and lail are ‘mini’ stimulants.. just like grape juice. sometimes these products are not allowed in certain medications.

  One sentence, Bat…Boy, one sentence: so you are getting personal, boy, I think everybody is seeing that. A little knowledge can be very dangerous, blind as you are, so I’ll stop here

  Who said catholic is associated with the church ? That’s not necessary. Catholic means universal, associated with all mankind. Which means you can NOT be religious AND yet be catholic (disciplined), e.g. at work, at home, with your family, because discipline and habit development is a crucial part of everything, and that includes religion

  so it’s true then: ignorance IS bliss and Rome was not built in a day, just like in religion..

  ps: u wear glasses ? cos every insult you are trying to pass to me seems to be associated with vision: frog in a pond, looking stick or finger: tour d’oeil, BatBoy ? HRHK food contains lots of carrots which are good for the eye …

  u win, just like mcdo did … c u !!

• Trinity Skyy

  ‘zwayon ek lay zot bann legim / zot pa reprezant seki nu venere = vas

  zwayon ek lay pa fer kul jisan zanimo / kan manz zanimo kone ki jisan ek sufrans kont enn inosan ki ena ant zot jipen

  alor fodre pa konpar plantasyon avek zanimo / c.a.d, pa konpan seki imobil ek seki mobil / pa konpar enn zanimo ki donn nesans, ek enn legim ki u plante ‘ By Tahir

• Prakash

  Dear All,
  Its not a question of winning or losing.Its just a question of respect for others. Every one is aware that ISKON has been on this land for many years. ISKON had already lodged an objection ten years ago in the same context. As a sign of respect to a religious group, Mac Donald should have desisted from opening an outlet just oposite of ISKON. It is respect for others which has made our country a unique place. Do you think that it would be wise to start a breeding ground for pigs in front of a mosque. Its not a question of garlic or onion or just a legal problem. its simply that we must respect the religious sensitivity of every individual irrespective of what religion that person is following and whether we agree with him or not. we have to make concessions for others.we need to have consideration for others. That has been the Mauritian culture for decades. If Mauritius is unique is not simply that we have an efficient judiciary or that our constituiton guarantees certain rights or because our politician has worked for it. Its more because we have developed a culture of self respect for others which is not found in any book of law. Its something which our forefathers has inculcated in us because of the pain they have endured and which they have painstakingly transmitted to us from one generation to another for the welfare of everyone.It now become our duty to transmit the same values to the new generation.

• Ajay

  Prakash has hit the nail on the head. Mc Do, having already tried to open just behind ISKCON has really not considered the values of the Mauritians by very quietly opening right in front of them. The following article shows how tricky Mc Do has been towards other communities in the US….http://money.howstuffworks.com/mcdonalds5.htm
  @Yashvin – to compare onion and garlic to Mother Cow really shows you’re only looking at the finger. Sorry – but you’re miles off.

• http://www.yashvinblogs.com Yashvin

  @Ajay : “of the Mauritians by very quietly opening right in front of them”

  Come on my friend, don’t you know that
  1. Official publications were made in newspapers (According to law)
  2. A board was put on the location where the resto is opening (According to law)
  3. And how can anyone miss a big building under construction, doesn’t anyone notice that the area is developing?

  Yet some people say that “They are for development in the region, but people are not respecting their values.”

• http://equatorlounge.blogspot.com Sheran Jaddoo

  nice article up there, revealing mcdo’s power in america n abroad. maybe they are anti-patriotic, who knows? they have the means to buy ppl, which could include anyone from any sector. To open a shop right in front of a religious place would have been something damaging.. worldwide

  who’s behind the franchise owner of mcdo in mauritius (not the mcdo manager, he’s a puppet too, appointed and given orders; was any info on the former being published, with all the recent saga going on for years) has he got something against iskcon? what if it turns out to be someone from a hindu background?

  and if ajay really cared, he would have approached iskcon with something tangible enuf to fight back.. such as what’s written above. am i wrong here ajay ? for real, get real oO

• Ajay

  @Yashvin: The fact that ISKCON saw the development and did not protest proves they are not against “development”. Did the notice board or newspapers specify “Mc Donald’s”? That’s what I mean about being tricky….

• http://www.yashvinblogs.com Yashvin

  @Ajay :
  1. I can’t confirm if Mac Do was written in the boards or newspapers
  2. As respect to law, I don’t think if it makes a difference if the restaurant sells veg salads only or poule/coq or beef.
  3. If you believe that Mac Do should have been written (in case it wasn’t), then sorry to tell you, you are on the wrong platform to contest that. You should be lodging a complaint and sue the authorities.
  4. Till now, weeks after the first sign of protests appeared, Mac Do has been given the go-ahead from authorities, have everything clear in their mind. HRHK is protesting only on religion-related beliefs, which is not written anywhere in our law.

  (On a polite note, can I kindly ask you to write my name correctly. Yashvin, with a “V” not a “W”… I have been correcting every comment of yours as from now. Thanks a lot dude.)

• Torpedo

  If ISKCON wins, then all sorts of bigots will start building their shrines within 200m from one another and soon, there will be no place to buy alcohol etc… parksi d’apré zott pou ena symbol “vice” partout. Nou pou fini par vinn enn etat religieux, nek pou ena pou garde 10 kalité linz lor nou pou mette dans 10 kalité l’endroit pou faire 10 kalité bigots content… Ala kott ISKCON so “combat” pe amenn nou. Ala kott bann couma Prakash & co pe rode faire cwar zott “combat” pou amenn nou.

  Au nom de la liberté, zott viole NOU liberté.

  Au nom liberté d’expression, zott rode empess nou exprimer.

  Au nom d’enn hyhpothése (bondié), zott ena conviction ki tous (sauf zott-mem) ki dans erérr.

  Pou ça kalité condescence ki zott ena pou ki pas ar zott, mo dire zott:
  si ZOTT pas content Dodoland, LEV ZOTT PAKé ALLé!!

• Ajay

  @Yashvin – sorry for name mislpellling.
  FYI ISKCON is objecting legally (objecting to authorities etc) – that’s what this whole debate is about isn’t it? Who will win? duh!
  Did you read ISKCON’s grounds of injunction for you to comment with so much conviction? Who said that ISKCON is objecting purely on religious grounds? The press? your friends? your mind?
  @Sheran: ISKCON has been saying exactly what I am saying above all along….it’s just that those who don’t want to hear don’t hear. Just as those who want to see spots on the moon only see spots and no beauty.

• Sagitarius

  That finger keeps showing up[...] If when you show the moon to someone you can’t stop staring at your finger ,you end up mistaking street lanterns for the moon .

  I think ‘church’ in the article Ajay mentioned means ‘christian church’ .The idea , I think , is to catch customers from people leaving church and is not a sinister anti-religious policy . Still, having Mac Do and ISKCON side by side is an awkward situation .

  I was once one of few owners of a copy of Manusmriti in Mauritius .I gave it away after some time but I remember it contained verses which seemed to be in contradiction with ISKCON’s and other people’s teaching that all year round vegan diet is compulsory for hindus. I searched a bit on the web to refresh my memory on that and fell upon a site which affirmed that the Ramayana also contained verses mentioning some quite licit case of meat eating .

  One of the things that has always puzzled me in the Manusmriti is the extreme harsh remedial action required to atone for the least ‘sin’. Most of these acts of atonement if executed would result in rapid death .If hindus were to follow hindu religious laws to the letter they would all be dead by now . E.g. for the offending words or attitude of some (Chris ,Prakash) the recommended remedy is to go to the sea ,to walk in the water getting further and further away from the shore and to continue walking when they can’t walk any further . I hope they are not as strict hindus as that .

  I have come to the conclusion these days that the purpose of the Manusmriti in edicting such extreme sanctions is to bring devotees to understand that religious laws are guidelines for a better living and not strict laws to be adhered to, to the letter , no matter what may come out of such rigorous conformity .This is as much I can say on that subject . I would not dare get involved in a debate with a pandit but I am quite convinced I’ve got it right .

  Meanwhile I still don’t like broad beans, and still prefer roti and dalpuri to Mac Do’s menu even if I think it’s better they’ve won .

• Torpedo

  @Ajay: @Prakash:
  “Just as those who want to see spots on the moon only see spots and no beauty”
  Just like the stars in the sky. None of any religious textbooks could ever give a precise count of them in the sky. As for beauty, it’s only a subjective notion, it lies in the eye of the beholder, not a rigid notion in a pseudo-poet’s (and brainwashed) mind like yours… hehehe!

  Seeing beauty in spots, mispelling names, quoting half-truths and whatever other things makes us raise questions about the wholesomeness of things you’ve been eating/drinking/smoking/consuming recently… unbelievable waste of oxygen!

  By the way, there’s much beauty in the way you ridicule yourselves… Like all the religious bigots commenting here. Highly enjoyable Merci Yashvin!

• http://equatorlounge.blogspot.com sheran jaddoo

  Religion is indeed a series of rules and regulations, rituals and rites that provide you with one end-result in the end: to become disciplined (as per the religion’s guides) and follow the laws, or chapters, or rites, and a host of other related words that come along with it; different times, different words.. and notice that in every religion, there are many things in common: statues to idolise, rituals, prayers and songs, gurus, teachers and priests, gatherings of people, a hierarchy to respect, etc…

  Religion always has to get bigger and bigger: it’s the aim of the system, there’s no going against it: if it is adapted to society and that the society likes it in return, there will be a larger audience resulting out of this liking and appreciation. if not, well, it will definitely be disliked and be looked upon as unappreciated, definitely.

  Words like Fascist, Fanatic, Unrealistic, will be ‘tagged’ to the religion, eventually. A tag that ISKCON, like every religion (or religious group) must try to avoid wrt society, unless if that’s what they really want, but then, we cant do nothing to change this ..

• prabhupadas

  plse visit http://iscowpmauritius.terapad.com [cow protection]

• http://nayarweb.com/blog Nayar

  I don’t need anyone to tell me what i should eat or not. I eat what i want as far as it is “Halal”.

  I highly appreciate when anyone would advice me something. Here, i appreciate your invitation to vegetarianism. But that’s all you are allowed to do.

  You don’t eat cow, don’t eat. Problem solved. Do NOT impose your thoughts on me. Warning!!!

• Mike-B

  The article raised the fact that once again that Mc Donalds, which was at that time 10 years ago under Currimjee’s franchise had to abandon the idea to open a restaurant at the actual Caddyplus(ex toys r us) site due to Iskcon protest. Chicago restaurant’s ltd(the actual Mc Donald franchise, a chinese family owned company) obtained its licence from Currimjee knowing this fact.
  My question is: Are Chicago restaurants complete idiots? Let me give you some info: Chicago Restaurants has its head office at Morc Cambier, le morne. Its name says it all, people living there don’t know the reality abt mauritius. Its true that chinese restaurants sell pork near Jummah Mosque, but they don’t come under jumma mosque doors to grill the pork ribs.
  I hope you understand my point, I’m for tolerance, but Chicago restaurant knew “a qui il a affaire”, and now opening a restaurant even closer to Iskcon than Currimjee is a clear provocation.

  About the appeal, Iskcon should lose because if it wins this might lead to a new bagarre raciale, as everyone will start to “rode so bout”. This will have a snow ball effect, creoles and chinese will not be able to cook beef, pork, tang…etc if they have hindu or muslim neighbors.

  Mc Donald could do a compromise. How did mc donalds suceede in india? By selling no beef-no pork and even having 100% veg restaurants. If Mc Donalds is number 1 worldwide, its because it adapts to the local cultures. Even KFC does it. Do you know that KFC sells pork abroad? Their zinger contains a leaf of beacon if you ask for it in Australia, USA…etc but not in Mauritius, because it knows that it wouldn’t have been THAT popular.

• Prakash

  Dear Saggitarius and Torpedo,
  You know well my dear friends that truth is always bitter and when people like you who fears to hear and face truth then then you will resort to character assasination. For your information sagitarius when India followed strictly the manusmriti, India and hindus were the most prosperous nation, the jewel of the crown, much contrary to what you are saying that all hindus would have been dead.
  As for Torpedo, I think he needs a complete rehabillitation.

• Sagitarius

  @Prakash

  Leave the ‘Dear’ out when you mean to be insulting .

  I write Sagittarius with a single ‘t’ . Is the surplus ‘g’ to compensate for it ?

  Truth is not always bitter . If you hold any truth and wanted to share , your confused rhetoric fails to convey it .

  Character assassination ? The delusional disorder you seem to be suffering from could come the B12 deficiency I mentioned earlier . See a doctor .

  ”when India followed strictly the manusmriti , India and hindu were ……” Could you give some details ? Or just give some dates , I’ll do my own research .

  Have you ever read through the Manusmriti ?

• Sagitarius

  The word ‘from’ is missing above . Imagine it in its proper place to avoid confusion .

• Jet_Fuel

  @Prakash:

  Weh, shaabaash bétté…

  Yeah, Saggitarius and Torpedo are verily wrong! True! I don’t doubt your sincerity…

  So what?

  Allé taa-eh, prend gagner enn fois… Pff…

  Rehabilitation: As long as you go in first, no problem. Alle touzour, nou vini la… Parski mo pas comprend: ou enn psychiatre / psychologue tou? Ou permett ou cwar ki ou tou-sel detenir la-vérité? Quelle vérité? Donc eski li vrai ki ou kwar en bann super-humains ki plusieurs centaines d’années de cela ti ena bann super-pouvoirs (immortalité, miracles, apparitions etc) ki ti pe aide ziss bann humain ki cwar dans bann super-humains-la? Ek bann super-humains ki aide nou zordi-zour sauf si nou prier zott? Ek bann super-humains ki pas aide bann lezott humains parski, mem si bann super-sipaki pouvoir zott ena zott ti fini ecrire destin ki nou-mem nou bizin prier pou nou gagne zott pitié ek nou pas trop souffert nou destin ki pas nou faute parski c’est zott ki’inn ecrire…? (Saki pe comprend pas necessaire contign lire, pou ena enn koutt dessann-calson la)
  Ou laz ou pe enkor pé guette DRAGON BALL…?

  Eh, get a life.

  A life of a recluse, in a hole somewhere up a mountain, with some grass and some dew for sustaining your life of purity and calm, far away from the mundane things that we have to do sustain our vice-ridden existence.

  Yes, go in peace, go.

  Non-friend.

  Non-human.

  There are so many other gods you don’t believe in – Apollo, Moses, Thor, the great Juju under the Mountain, etc…

  And you’re only one away from being the atheist most people are already… but for fear of rejection, they come back for more, and more, in an infinite quest for spiritual fulfillment by a never-ending masturbatory prayers…

  I pray for your soul

• Ajay

  @Sagitarius
  Nowhere is it stipulated that all Hindus have to be pure vegetarian. But the ancient Hindu scriptures give the conditions under which human beings can consume meat if they cannot remain vegetarian. It is explained that before killing the animal one should whisper in its ear, “this life I am killing you, in your next life you may kill me.” Also, it is usually the warriors, those on the battlefield who would have eaten meat as they would have required more physical strength. The spiritually minded were always pure vegetarian.

  Animals were not reared for food. One would have to go to the forest and hunt. Quite a difference from today where animals are reared in atrocious conditions. Their slaughter is often far from humane and they end up neatly packaged on the supermarket shelf or in a burger on one’s plate. When the meat is “expired” it is all thrown out. There is no respect for the animal’s life. And it is respect and compassion that are at the roots of a peaceful society.

  As for the Manusmriti – The Vedic culture (sanatana-dharma or Hinduism) is not static. It has evolved with time. Just like there are so many differences between the Old and New Testaments. Manusmriti is not for this age of Kali-yuga. Indeed it’s atonements are very harsh because those laws were for an age were man had higher values and principles and the laws of Manu were rarely broken. Lord Krishna did not enforce these laws and prophets of today know that many of these laws and their punishments are obsolete. Sanatana-dharma today is a path of peace and love and I do not appreciate the way this thread is developing. It is full of hatred and bigotry. Accusations of “religious bigotry” on no real grounds. Who are the real bigots? Each one points at the person in front of him! But know that when you point at someone, four fingers point back at yourself.

  And @ Torpedo: I really don’t care how much you laugh at me You really haven’t been able to hold an intelligent conversation here…..

  Nothing can be obtained unless there is understanding. At least an effort to understand one another. Jeering and name-calling will get us nowhere.

  @ Jet-Fuel: Please pray for my soul too

• Sagitarius

  @Ajay

  This first paragraph is just for fun . Don’t look for any special meaning . When you point at someone , three fingers point back at you ; the thumb prudently avoids getting involved . Is the thumb a coward or a more intelligent finger . Only God knows .

  I agree with what you say on modern animal husbandry ,and, meat packaging and marketing .

  Thank you for shedding more light on the Manusmriti . But I’d still like a few answers from Prakash .

  I don’t have any personal hatred and I’m unfamiliar with the feeling . Which does not mean ,I think ,I have to say niceties to everything . I don’t recall having written the word ‘bigot’ even when addressing someone who is evidently bigoted .

  This thread is not that ‘full of hatred and bigotry’ . True , there is some unhappy choice of words in some comments ,but I don’t think that has any deep meaning . The way it is going is irritating for some and amusing for others . I guess you are part of the irritated . It can be counterproductive to champion a case if you are not articulate .

  If you have other things to do [like maybe , build a kanwar] do it please and don’t be in a hurry to reply . l hate it when people reply after only superficial reading of what I have written .

• http://equatorlounge.blogspot.com Sheran

  like i mentioned above, it’s all a question of appreciation n likedness wrt society: another gud example is the last religion ever conceived (maybe im wrong) the bahais abroad and the bahais’ approach here…

  besides mcdo’s reputation wwde has got some issues too (oO)

• Jet_Fuel

  @Ajay:
  “Sanatana-dharma today is a path of peace and love”: Truer than nothing else! Go tell that to this guy playing with matches…
  Who is defending the undefendable?

  “when you point at someone, four fingers point back at yourself”: Definitely, without the shadow of a doubt, with this kind of pre-school children logic, you are way too intelligent for these poor “intellectuellement-limité” people commenting here… Sagitarius is trying to… OK, do him man! Only you can do him! Do him!

  You use absolutism and despise logic when it suits you, and use relativism when absolutism pricks you in the side, and then spit on logic when it hits back at your crookedness, bravo… Yes, Torpedo needs rehabilitation (doesn’t eat meat for fear of cancer: that’s not reasonable, not logic! he SHOULD be religious to defend vegetarianism), and I need to stay there indefinitely. I hope Sagitarius (articulate and logic in all full-grown adult sense: very frightening combination for too-intelligent but inarticulate people) will be bring me pom-zoranz…

  Just one last thing: my culinary preference, like my sexual preference, remains a private thing, none of your business. No need to trumpet about it like you, as if buying with it some kind of pseudo-spiritual virginity.

  I kiss you farewell: Mwouak!

• Torpedo

  Ala bann ki pas hystérique (couma impé ici) comprend ki enn végétarien pas nécessairement enn bigot…

  Franchement, mo trouve ça kalité “outing”-la impé déplacé. Totally irrelevant, in fact. Wa-dir enn juge ki appelé à juge enn case viol pé vinn déclaré publiquement ki li enn hétéro / homosexuel ou bien ki li masturbé zis 5 fois par zour. Qu’est-ce qu’on en à a foutre qu’il soit végétarien/talien ou omnivore? Noir ou blanc? Handicappé ou pas? Cheveux frisé blond ou raide noir?

  Purée, quand on est juge, soit on est professionnel et impartial ou pas du tout. Point barre!

• Prakash

  Jet Fuel,
  I read your comments but It does not make any sense to me. You are speaking about super humans then you start speaking about removing pants. can you explain the link. As far as my soul is concerned don’t worry about it. I can take care about myself, better you take care of your pant because you seem to be running out of your fuel, thats why your choice of words is out of context here.
  Saggitarius, I feel that Ajay has got the point right about Manusmriti. Hinduism and hindu laws have adapted themselves with the evolution of time. What may be good at a particular point in time may not be necessarily good at a different time. Hinduism does not beleive in rigidity but adaptability, that is why it has survived the ravages of time unlike many other ancient cultures for e.g egyptian and Greek.
  Mike I think you also got the point right that Mac Do usually try to adapt to local culture. But as far as the legal issue is concerned I have a feeling that ISKON has a chance to win, for the simple reason that our sources of law are based on the state of our society and our Judges when giving judgments take human and cultural factors into consideration as well. You will understand me better if you read about something called the sociology of law. Max Weber has written extensively about it.

• Sagitarius

  @Prakash

  There is a discrepancy between what you say about the Manusmriti in [each of] your last two comments . But let’s not stay too long on that issue .
  Hinduism – you say – believe in adaptability rather than rigidity .
  Well , maybe ISKCON could lose some of its rigidity and try to adapt to our multicultural Mauritian society and to the 21st century where people – atheists and believers – are more and more allergic to excessive intervention of religion in civil life .

• Prakash

  You are right to some extent Sagitarius that being a multicultural society ISKON should make some concession to adapy itself to the present development. But unfortunately the veneration of cows or the divine status that cows enjoy in ISKON is so fundamantal that it is one of the pillar of this organisation. You will see that in most of the pictures of Lord Krishna, he is with cows. Krishna and the cows are inseperable. Put it another way you cannot worship Krishna and at the same time you remain insensitive to your neighbour who is planning to sell beef. I think that Mac Do should take the cultural aspect into consideration as they do in India [see comments above]

• Sagitarius

  Prakash

  Your comment in short means :
  ISKCON should make concessions but Mac Do -not ISKCON – should make concessions .
  Sounds a bit like nonsense to me . You agree but you don’t agree !

  Mac Do does not have to do in Mauritius what it did in India because Mauritius is neither Indian nor hindu territory .

  You and ISKCON should know that for more than 45% of the population beef and meat are almost synonymous . It’s not for ISKCON to decide where they can go , where they can stay or where they can eat what .

  Researchers have some difference of opinion about the precise origin of the various species of cattle but they agree on a few things :

  1, The cow first appeared in the present Palestine-Syria-Iraq region .
  2, Sub-species then developed in Africa and probably in North-Eastern Asia .
  3, Later European and Indian species appeared probably with some cross breeding with the European aurochs or the Indian buffalo respectively .
  4, The species most found in today’s ranching type herds are more recent crossbreeds between African and Indian species that evolved about a thousand year ago .

  One thing is certain : the cow as we know it was not present in India at the beginning of Hinduism .

  The kama-dhenus , the sacred cows , are the surabhi cow of planet Vaikuntha . This planet where we live , the only one I’m a bit familiar with , is called Earth .

  I think that you force yourself to believe things that you know to be untrue , because of culture and religion .
  By the way , the python is a sacred animal in my religion . But you may eat it if you want : you’ll never be able to eat what it represents .

• Prakash

  Saggitairus,
  I can only conclude from what you have written that inspite of knowing that the Python is sacred, you are urging me to eat the python. This already shows a lack of respect for your own religion. Then how can you have respect for others.
  You should be happy that we have a population which is mostly from the indian subcontinent. If you don’t believe me just cast some glance on your neighbours especially if it happens that you come from a minority group. I think you have a bad memory as well probaby you have already forgotten the bomb blast at the christian church in Iraq and Egypt on christmas last year, just to cite you some examples.
  I think that your knowledge about India is also very limited. Just make some further reseach and find out where the borders of India stood in ancient India. That is probaby why your research says that the origin of cow is in the region of Syria and Iraq. Lord Krishna appeared on this earth about 5000 years back. Try to find out where the borders of India stood at that time and for your information until recently middle east countries were trading extensively with india through the silk road.
  You also mention that the cows does not exist at the beginning of hiduism. Then I am sorry to tell you that you don’t even know the basic of hinduim.So don’t try to be a Pandit. The cow has always been an iconic figure in hinduism. Besides krishna, Lord Shiva best devotee is Nandi, the sacred cow.

• Torpedo

  @Prakash: @Ajay: DROM VIDE KI FERR TAPAAZ

  “You really haven’t been able to hold an intelligent conversation here”: So you measure intelligence: would you care to share how you evaluate, which qualifications permit you to do that, and how you rate yourself: bouffissure de suffisance auto-congratulante… “your choice of words is out of context here”: so how you decide which one is one or off context – you have scales for measuring that?

  I just like it so much here, and relishing at the idea that you feel compelled to continue whining and complaining and asserting and exposing your own petty prejudice and ethno-racist insinuations about Sagitarius’ knowledge: you can’t digest a non-Hindu being as fluent in something that even you “born-Hindus” are struggling to try to understand. Hah!

  I now remember why I didn’t like McDo since many many years before they landed in Mauritius: floor-level salaries!

  By the way Sagittarius, it seems that “reason” and “logic” are two obscure, unknown concepts to Prakash and Ajay: they’ve run out of ammunition and can’t cope with anything that has been thrown at them so far. And when you explain, patiently and skilfully, you are at fault because they insinuate that they have far superior knowledge by virtue of the accident that caused them to be born in a hindu family. They say things that contradict their beliefs and then say the contrary in the next sentence, only themselves can follow their thought-process. When they can’t understand, they say we are not logical, and pretend that we are misleading them, and this sort of pseudo-arguments is getting on my nerves: let them be. Peine perdue ar zott: prend gagner.

  Moi, mo oulé MacDo rentrer / pas plier parski sinon c’est enn la-porte ouverte pou tou kalité extrémistes pou vinn impose zott conception de zott liberté.

  Peu importe si MacDo maltraite so employés dehors, ki li vann la-viande rouge ek bann manzé ki pas sain, fauder laisse le peuple décider: si le marketing plan inn bien faire, li pou survive, sinon, business will die off naturally. Si pas donne li so chance exister, nou pa kapav préjuge de son bann faute ki li penkor faire.

• Ajay

  @Torpedo: FYI I was neither born in a Hindu family nor in an Indian body. So you judge for yourself who is “exposing your own petty prejudice and ethno-racist insinuations”.

  Furthermore, I did not measure intelligence but the intelligence of your present conversation.

  No need to defend Sagitarius. He has done so very articulately and as a gentleman. Actually, we even agreed on points.

  I think one thing Sagitarius got wrong is his confusion to see who is laughing and who is irritated….but that is just a detail….

• Torpedo

  @Ajay:

  “FYI I was neither born in a Hindu family nor in an Indian body.”
  Then, why take a forename that’s not yours? Why a hindu one in this instance? Are you an actor?

  “I did not measure intelligence but the intelligence of your present conversation. ”
  Wow: what’s that measuring device?

  “Actually, we even agreed on points.” re-Wow. And with this major ground-breaking achievement done, it brings you where?

• Ajay

  @Sagitarius: You said: “It’s not for ISKCON to decide where they can go, where they can stay or where they can eat what.”

  Definitely. They know that. ISKCON is not deciding. ISKCON is objecting to Mac Donald’s location and to how they obtained their permit as per local laws. The court will DECIDE and ISKCON will accept the verdict. As for meat/beef eaters in Mauritius – please cite one example when ISKCON decided where they could go, where they could stay or where they could eat what?

  You said:”One thing is certain : the cow as we know it was not present in India at the beginning of Hinduism.”
  A quick Google search gave me the following:”Evidence for domesticated zebu (humped cattle, B. indicus) has been discovered at the site of Mehrgahr, in the Indus Valley of Pakistan, about 7,000 years ago”.

  Lord Krishna appeared 5000 years ago – so scientific evidence that cows, as we know them on Earth, existed 7000 years ago is enough for supporting arguments in this topic. Besides, scientists in all domains often find evidence that destroys previous theories so “certain” is quite uncertain.

  One clarification: Most of us drink more cow’s milk, than our own mother’s milk, during our lifetime. Just think of all the wonderful preparations made from milk, or that use milk as one of their ingredients. So,ISKCON does not only believe in what the cow represents but also what she gifts to mankind. She is a Mother. Can’t really compare her to the python or lion.

• Torpedo

  En tout cas, bann saki penkor goute Subway (yummy custom-made sandwiches), try to make it a must upon your next trip abroad. in any case, it’s overtaking Mac Donald’s…

• Ajay

  @Torpedo: you said,”Then, why take a forename that’s not yours? Why a hindu one in this instance? Are you an actor?”

  I think Torpedo is more of an actor’s name than Ajay

  No rules about one being born and brought up in one religion and changing to another later on in life – or is there?

• Jet_Fuel

  @Ajay:
  “Most of us drink more cow’s milk, than our own mother’s milk, during our lifetime”
  Ki ou koz kozé mama-laa…?!? Guette bann dans to kalité ki pé faire ar bann mama: http://www.slate.fr/story/22779/arabie-saoudite-allaitement-hommes-adultes

  “Lord Krishna appeared 5000 years ago – so scientific evidence that cows”

  Pfff… au risque de me répéter: “You use absolutism and despise logic when it suits you, and use relativism when absolutism pricks you in the side, and then spit on logic when it hits back at your crookedness”

  When it suits you, you call for scientific evidence, and then in the same sentence you call for “appearance”… Eta-hé mové aaar… Pas vinn essaye faire l’esprit la-hein!

• http://equatorlounge.blogspot.com Sheran Jaddoo

  People are supposed to be open-minded: we’ve got the internet and places where we can educate ourselves, we can never stop learning new things everyday in books and online; so y do ppl fold their eyes just on a limited form of veneration

  FYI:
  Lord Krsna, just like any other form of Godlike personality that existed in time, appeared numerous times on earth in many other human forms in different places: Jesus, Horus, Dionysus (or Dionisus something like that), Buddha, to name a few.. Those numerous types of personalities were believed to be associated with the Holy Spirit or SuperSoul, in turn associated in some form or the other with Space and Universes or even better with a grand architect of a universe.

  Each of those personalities had an animal associated with them: scarab, elephant, lion, tiger, etc… All these animals, or at some time insects, played an important part in humanity: horses and elephants/mammouths during wars, cows and beef to plow lands in Saraswati civilisations for farming, scarabs in egyptan times believed to rejuvenate light from the sun (something to do with the sun, google that out, better now: wiki it). Snakes have been and still are associated with medicine. Check out logos and corporate identities for Medical institutions.

  Dont try to outsmart me on this part, i know this very well cos im a graphic designer, we do lots and lots of research and history is part of it: people, all along history, always liked animals because it’s the next sexual being after us humans. You want to capture an audience and attract attention ? Most of the time, you just have to associate an animal with a human being, usually one that predominated the most along history: dragon, horse (unicorn), tiger, lion, elephant (mammouth,courts!), panther, cows or beef too

  So what Scientific Evidence … Are you talking about !!?

  People, regular people, usually the working class were compelled or felt the need to adore the special animal together with the personality (there just cant be an animal only come onnnn, people will definitely place a similar sexual being similar to them on the podium) usually for a good reason. so MEUHH is JUST another animal at one time adored by people just like other of those selected animals associated with a personality.

  AND nutritively speaking, regarding human beings, cow’s milk, that usually comes after mother’s milk, is not supposed to be taken all our life. The regular daily consumption normally stops before the age of 10: our body has not been conditioned for digesting huge amounts of milk all our life (we take it cos we are greedy, like 1bon dité *&^%$#@! tous les matins: even i do it, like all of you here) normally we dont need that much…

• Mike

  The story goes on and on, read a new blog article on this link

• http://equatorlounge.blogspot.com Sheran

  Then I think it would be wise to post this link there, since this article has quite a lot of information, even if all comments and point of views of readers are to be respected, urrrr …

• Torpedo

  @Sheran Jaddoo:
  “… regarding human beings, cow’s milk, that usually comes after mother’s milk, is not supposed to be taken all our life.”

  Yep, couldn’t agree more: am myself lactose-intolerant since the past 5 years or so… And I hear that more and more people in my entourage are slowly getting into that ‘condition’.

• Torpedo

  @Mike:
  Yes, the argumentation is crystal clear: by allowing any kind of selfish group to impose its beliefs unto others, it’s equivalent to a violation of democracy by the abuse of democracy itself. Full stop.

• Sagitarius

  Right now I am making the switch from Windows to Ubuntu and it is even less smooth and straightforward than I expected . So I’ve got my hands full and can’t devote too much time to blogs ; but some points have been raised that shouldn’t be left unanswered so I guess I’ll have to find the time to comment . Maybe in 4-5 days ?

  A few words on one point though . That Hinduism was born 5000 years BCE , i.e 7000 years ago is something I already knew . Since we are talking about the divine link between Krishna and the cow ,I referred to the age given to Krishna by Hindu scholars according to their different readings of the Vedas and other Hindu sciptures . Google a bit on that : you might make some interesting finds . E.g. there’s even one learned scholar who has calculated from the Vedas that Krishna was born 154 [or is it 156] trillion years ago .
  154 trillion years ago , let alone the cow , neither the Sun nor planet Earth existed .

• http://equatorlounge.blogspot.com Sheran Jaddoo

  @Sagitarius:
  you will need to give me this link right now right here !

• Ajay

  @ Sagitarius:
  You said:”One thing is certain : the cow as we know it was not present in India at the beginning of Hinduism.” Then when I quoted evidence that cows existed 7000 years ago you said: “That Hinduism was born 5000 years BCE , i.e 7000 years ago is something I already knew .”
  Seems to be a contradiction here….
  Lord Krishna appeared on earth 5000 years ago (at least this is the common acceptance in Hinduism). From what you wrote it appears that you also agree to His earthly connection with cows. That’s all I said – I felt that that consensus was enough common ground to discuss the issue at hand.
  As for Lord Krishna’s eternal connection with cows, at least you accept that He appeared some “trillion years” ago. Lord Krishna Himself says “Never was there a time when I did not exist…”
  You also mentioned: “The kama-dhenus , the sacred cows , are the surabhi cow of planet Vaikuntha” and as such these surabhi cows have nothing to do with our sun, earth or galaxy or the era they were created. As you said surabhi cows are from Vaikuntha. So it is logic that they (could have) existed along with Krishna in Vaikuntha, at least some trillion years ago (if you do not accept that Krsna had no beginning) – well before the advent of Hinduism.

• Ajay

  @ Sheran: you wrote a long, interesting analysis that I don’t disagree with and you ended it with the punchline: “ So what Scientific Evidence … Are you talking about !!?”
  What are you talking about!!? Sagitarius mentioned that cows as we know them on earth were not present at the dawn of Hinduism and I responded to that with evidence that cows did exist on planet earth 7000 yrs ago. (Later he said he already knew that Hinduism also began 7000 years ago). What’s your problem about the evidence I presented?
  Please be specific and if you wish to argue then please quote what I have said and not interpolate what I have not said. Thank you.
  You also said: “so MEUHH is JUST another animal at one time adored by people just like other of those selected animals associated with a personality.”
  That may be true for the animals you quoted but it is not true of the worship of the cow in Hinduism and in Vaikuntha. Worship of the cow goes far beyond representation or one that was predominant at a historic time, or a commercial/medical emblem. To understand that needs some sensitivity to religious principles. “People are supposed to be open-minded: we’ve got the internet and places where we can educate ourselves, we can never stop learning new things everyday in books and online” so maybe you could take time to learn more about the connection between Lord Krishna and the cow.
  “AND nutritively speaking, regarding human beings, cow’s milk, that usually comes after mother’s milk, is not supposed to be taken all our life.”
  I guess people should stop eating ice-cream or cheese after 10 years old. If you would read ingredients of cookies, cakes, mayonnaise you would realize that you eat more milk than you think you do….

• Torpedo

  Bon appétit bann ki pou alle goute ça.

• yurit0s

  Today 12Mars. MCDO Phoenix opens…

• Torpedo

  Attention meat-lovers & fast-food / junk food lovers: ATTACK ! ! !

  

• Ajay

  And the story continues….thought you would appreciate the latest update…. Mac Do was called to court today (14.03) to explain why they had opened when there is an injunction request weighing against them. the Justice was going to issue an immediate injunction which would not allow them to operate until the case had been decided upon. However, Mac Do agreed not to prepare any beef dishes in their restaurant until the court takes their decision.

• http://equatorlounge.blogspot.com Sheran

  Yeah sure, the court’s gonna appoint an iskcon rep to sit there all day malaing and monitor the dishes

• http://equatorlounge.blogspot.com Sheran

  sorry i dont understand you ajay and you are making me having to write excessively to make you understand..

  cos in your last paragraph: you are repeating what im saying. a cow fully grows up in less than 20 years while our lifespan is entirely different; hence the rate of development of our bones structures are slower than that of cows and over-consumption would generate complications; we should not consume milk excessively.. i told u to wiki. all this here is not a biology lecture room, it’s opinion-based here

  secondly, you are confusing hinduism and hindu religious principles AGAINNNNNNN meeeeuuuuhhhhhly crap.. you are mixing a philosophy of life, a form of supreme being and rituals all into one a real briani !

  Hinduism: go back to school and read kass to yen, mon petit .. you will see rituals like what we all practise here (sometimes so wrongly oww) are nothing but branches of the tree whereas the heart of Hinduism, what we should really experience and not pracTise, is the trunk and roots…
  http://hinduism.about.com/od/hinduism101/a/definition.htm

  to be honest, you are laying too much emphasis on cows. get a room bruv.. there was a time when cows were an essential part of civilisation development and not just human development; knowing when cows came on earth i dunno maybe brought on earth from spaceships is not what im saying.

  At a time when hinduism and afterwards hindu religion were heavily predominating in a part of the world, cows were not just important for rituals and prayers but they were of a major importance for the development of a whole part of that world civilisation (in this case at that time in India, for farming and ploughing of lands, constructions of roads, short-distance travelling vehicles, etc…)

  Other animals had just as much importance as cows in a part of history at a certain point in time.. adoration of only one form of life (or philosophy of life) whilst downgrading the others leads to a type of school of thought known as the Orthodoxes. Orthodoxes are cool ppl, sticking to their principles of life flawlessly. Now another similarly same form of adoration, but this time so very childishly excessive in a fascist form of way leads to what is known as a Fanatic, which, by what you are writing automatically reflects your behaviour as such and which I, as your next-to-kin similar human being, dont want you to definitely turn into one before you go on and twist other ppl’s mindsets without you knowing..

  finalement tone comprend ki mo p rode dire toi !!??

• Ajay

  @Sheran:Get your facts first – then you can distort them as you please. (Mark Twain)

• Torpedo

  @Ajay:
  Hein: toi ki pou sauté-pilé la!

  @Sheran:
  “finalement tone comprend ki mo p rode dire toi !!?? ”
  Non missié: so diss inn rayé. Nétt!

  Li pa comprend parski so gène ‘good faith’ ek ‘fair play’ inn sourde/avégg/mort tellement li’nn soigne so bann lezott gène ‘narrow-mindedness’ ek ‘egoism’ ar enn régime purement végétalien (pas végétarien). Mo cwar sa différence la-oussi li (declare) pas conner, parski vegan li tellement difficile respecter ha…

  Bon, koz enn koutt: quand pou mett plan MacDo la?

• http://www.yashvinblogs.com Yashvin

  @Torpedo: Waiting impatiently to go there, unfortunately, it is not on my way. Need to wait when I am going towards that direction and also, hope that they will be serving beef by then xD

• Torpedo

  @Ajay:
  Ou self-appointed leader (content zouer ar zalimett??) pe dire ou pa alle la-bas ek garde l’espoir! Mais si ou ti alle ici, capave ou ti pou comprend à quel point bann couma ou manipulé par bann sectaires…

• T0rped0

  So, now ISKCON representative starts using ambiguous language…

  And other opportunists making irrelevant links.

  Where will this stop? I mean: when will self-appointed / self-righteous bigots stop opening their oral orifice for mingling in simple matters and revealing their propension to hate / paranoïa?

• Ajay

  @Torpedo: I strongly feel that Mac Do was very disrespectful, inconsiderate and tricky in opening right opposite a temple. But, I also deplore the way ISKCON and Kranti leaders are speaking. I don’t think they are properly representing their guru or the ISKCON devotees. But you are not speaking much differently to the way they are….

• http://equatorlounge.blogspot.com Sheran

  @torpedo:lol

• Prakash

  Torpedo, you are treating ajay as being manipulated by sectarian, others as bigot. so whom do you consider yourself to be. Do you consider yourself to be Mr Clean or snowwhite. I stopped writing for a while just because I was waiting for the judgment, but unfortunately it was a bit delayed. But don’t worry I am reading all the comments. I think that Mac do and all their supporters have already got a big kick on their lower back and its not so far that you will get another kick, hope it won’t be on the front this time. For your information if Mac Do would not have appoloised to the court zotte ti pou bizin leve pake allez. At least read the paper before making silly comments.

• Sagitarius

  I went past Mac Do last week and , I must say , I was a bit surprised . ISKON faces East . On its right there are several properties which separate it from the road going towards Candos Hospital . Mac Do is on the other side of that road [not on the road's edge but well inside ] facing the exit of Phoenix CC’s parking area .

  So Mac Do is to the South of ISKCON . There are other properties between them . And the distance between them is more than a few meters [I would say at least 300 meters .]

  As far as I remember there has never any Southerly winds in Mauritius . Except in rare cyclonic conditions : the cyclone must be at more or less same latitude [as Mauritius] and to the East if I remember well .[It could be same latitude to the West ,though : anybody interested check with Met. Station]

  If Southerly winds are now predominant in Mauritius [There are so many odd happenings on this planet ,that I wouldn't be surprised if one day it transformed into a cube ,so why not consider southerly winds] we are – or rather our government [the best in the World : foreign political leaders often come here for lessons in governance] is making a big , Rs 10 billion mistake : the airport at Plaisance with its runway on a East-West [or more precisely East-South-East - West-North-West] axis is no longer appropriate .

  Aircraft have better take off and landing performance against the wind and so runways are constructed with their axis in same direction as the predominant wind . A quick glance at a map and I’d say the best location for an airport with a North-South axis is Bambou [yes!] . That water treatment plant would have to move again , of course .

  But maybe all this won’t be necessary . Maybe the prevailing winds are still the easterlies and the south-easterlies . In which case ISKCON would have to install some really powerful machinery to create a wind flow between Mac Do and ISKCON if they want to smell beef .

  Don’t bother to reply to the above . There’s not much in it that can be challenged .

  About Mother-cow and her milk .
  You should know that although in Mauriius we think cow-milk when we say milk there are other animals who are just as motherly as the cow . Camels , goats , sheep , horses ,reindeer ,yaks ,llamas , buffaloes all give milk for human benefit . But the best is the donkey : donkey’s milk is the closest to human milk . It can , when mother’s milk is not available , be fed to newborns.
  Anyone who insists on having a Mother-goddess should worship donkeys [a.k.a. asses]

  Meanwhile in India more and more young people are taking a liking to beef and the domestic market for the divine meat is expanding steadily .

  This is getting a bit long . Let’s leave a few things for some other time . Things like respect ,the origins of cattle, symbolic animals or why minorities [in my case Creoles] should ”be happy that we have a population that comes mostly from the Indian subcontinent .” There has been quite a few events during the past 30 years hat could make Creoles not happy that we have a population ”that comes mostly from the Indian subcontinent .” We could review these some day ,but I’ll leave that for last as it has a strong potential for getting nasty .

  Although my knowledge of India is very limited , I think I can update yours on a few topics . We’ll see about that too .

• Ajay

  @ Sagitarius:
  “Don’t bother to reply to the above . There’s not much in it that can be challenged .”
  Lol! Actually smell was never a primary contention in this whole legal debate but to get facts straight – the ISKCON temple, when built, will be within 100 metres of McDo. Furthermore, ISKCON land extends to south of the Sodnac Link Road, extending to the south-west of McDo.

  Mother Cow’s milk is only one of the reasons she is held in such high regard. Only a donkey would claim, “I give milk, the cow gives milk so I should be worshipped as is Mother Cow.”

  McDo claims that they obtained their permit, following all legal procedures required of them in Mauritius. ISKCON contests that. That’s the bottom line of the debate. McDo showed how much respect they have for our legal system by opening before time so let’s see whether it will be proved that they disrespected law in obtaining their permit as well. We’ll know on the 29th of March. My mother’s birthday. I’ll be celebrating either way.

• Sagitarius

  @ Ajay

  Don’t laugh too much , a bad tooth is showing .

  South-west of Mac Do you’ll find Jumbo .

  Does ISKCON own that much land ? That would be a nice change from other Hindu organizations here which , unlike Christian , Muslim and others , tend to build shivalas , mandirs etc on State Land . Confirm that please .

  So ,if I’ve got you right , ISKCON objection to Mac Do is not related to the actual ISKCON’s buildings , but to a temple that it will build someday .

  Now , that’s a very interesting argument . If accepted , it would mean that anyone having unused land [or is argument valid only for ISKCON ?] can block opening of any restaurant by claiming he intends to build a mosque , a shivala or a church someday .

  More on cows and other beasts some other day .

  Beware of birthday cakes , I think they put animal fat in the dough. [just kidding!]

  No special occasion for me on 29 March – I think I’ll have some beef curried with potatoes . When it’s almost done I’ll add some chopped coriander leaves . It will taste like there’s something to celebrate .

• titine

  cas la quand pou passe la cour? nek p postpone meme!!!

• T0rped0

  In your luxury car, when you button up, when you hit a tennis ball, or when you extinguish a fire, that’s why you hear “Mmeuh…”

• http://www.soccer.mu/ shaad

  b si pense kuma ISKCON, dmin si mo p manz Laviande dan mo lakaz ek mo voisin enn Hindou, li ggn droit vine enpess moi manzE?? Si dmin mo voisin p manz porc et moi en tant ki Musulman, mo pa ggn droit manz porc, aB mo enpess li???

  ine ler pu ki lepep pense ouvertement.. Mac-Donald pa p force persone pu vine manzer dan so restorant..

• http://profiles.google.com/akashsky Akash Gura Goredo

  “what about at qb, la bonne marmite (special krsna food) in between
  two chinese bars ?? (pork and beek snacks with rum and whiskies) ”

  Wai do! Bien tapé sa kalott la!

• Yves

  I am not a hindu but I believe ISKCON is right to fight McDonald. In what became the longest legal
  battle in history, known as the McLibel case, McDonald tried every trick
  (including spy infiltration, coercion, bribery, intimidation and
  threats) to silence one male British postman and one female British
  gardener from educating the public about the devastating effects
  McDonald franchises have on human health, animal welfare, employee
  welfare and the natural environment. McDonald is an American mega corporation. Why did they spend several
  Rs_millions just to silence two ordinary people? What does McDonald NOT want you to know? Do you really believe McDonald has been trying to get into Mauritius for 10 years only to open fast food restaurants? Broaden your understanding with these two links:

  http://www.mcspotlight.org/index.shtml

  http://www.thecorporation.com/

  ps: No Mauritian should ever forget the case of Diego Garcia.

  from Yves (from St Croix, living in London).

• Yves

  I am not a hindu but I believe ISKCON is right to fight McDonald. In
  what became the longest legal
  battle in history, known as the McLibel case, McDonald tried every trick
  (including spy infiltration, coercion, bribery, intimidation and
  threats) to silence one male British postman and one female British
  gardener from educating the public about the devastating effects
  McDonald franchises have on human health, animal welfare, employee
  welfare and the natural environment. McDonald is an American mega
  corporation. Why did they spend several
  Rs_millions just to silence two ordinary people? What does McDonald NOT
  want you to know? Do you really believe McDonald has been trying to get
  into Mauritius for 10 years only to open fast food restaurants? Broaden
  your understanding with these two links:

  http://www.mcspotlight.org/index.shtml

  http://www.thecorporation.com/

  ps: No Mauritian should ever forget the case of Diego Garcia.

  from Yves (from St Croix, living in London).

• http://profiles.google.com/akashsky Akash Gura Goredo

  Merci boukou missié!

• Preeshilanobaub

  Hey guy you r very down to earth u!

  Cows r our friends we can’t torture our friends and eat them! Cow is our mother who give us milk. People who can’t control their tongue will always find excuses to eat their friends.

  Because of animal cruelty today the world is facing calamities, because we r going against nature.

  After all every living entity has feeling.

  Please b sensible!

  Thanks Chris

  PN

• tinku

  “there’s not really a need to go to temples when you can make a temple out of yourself”…. Do you have such a nice temple made in yourself? So noble you are……. hats off!… well, doesn’t seem so at least by your words.

  If you want to worship God, go to a temple (or) mosque (or) a church, its true that you can make a temple out of yourself, but the question is whom will you worship in that temple, is it GOD (or) your own ego?

  Though I am not a follower of ISKON but I know of some of my friends who are and respect other religions. If you think deeply enough, you will see that there are always problems with an organization as a whole ( I CHALLENGE you to let me know of any ORGANIZATION without faults), but the point is that you need to see the purity of teachings…. They won’t oppose you from contructing your mosque (or) temple (or) church but if you will kill a cow and market it under ANY NAME, obviously it is a problem as it is not under the scriptural injunctions.

  Some people may be bad and attach the tag of religion to it but it doesn’t mean that religion is bad. It means that the follower is not following religion, but his/her OWN WHIMSICAL MIND.

  FYI, the word HINDU is not present in the Vedas and btw, who told you that ISKCON is AGAINST HINDUISM? It is AGAINST COW KILLING.

  FYI, krishna did not tell to fight with MCDO (or) KFC, but in fact my friend, krishna was motivating arjun to fight by teaching bhagavad gita…. but against whom? adharma. This is the same thing. I pity that you couldn’t see even this after knowing about krishna.

• Torpedo

  http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/19/bhagavad-gita-russia-india-siberia

  Read the above, then we’ll see how far these people can go. Because they SHOULD show their true devotion, all pro-iskcon MUST go there and show some support. Else, they shold just STFU as normal sheep, forever.