Their fear to witness a decrease in hindus

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  • axon

    hello…i fink we should have that anti conversion law in mauritius..we should accept the religion into which we had born..whether is good or bad..

  • http://blebon.com/blog Bruno

    Lol … waste of time Juste enn ti groupe isole ki pe faire tapaz. Sa ban kalite mentalite la nepli pren compte moris aster ca :) Btw there will be less and less religious people as Mauritius becomes more “developed” so there will be less Hindus, just like there will be less Muslims and Christians :)

  • http://www.tushal.net Tushal

    ROFL. . 1 lepok ti pe gagne sa kot moi lakaze. . 2 3 dimoune vini. .ek coser join this religion acoz god la dan, etc. .zot in aret vini depuis mo ti menace banla. xD

  • Joshua

    I will be the first to speak as I am an ex-hindu, Tamil exactly converted to Christianity
    I am free to take my own decision. If I want to convert to whatever religion that’s my choice. I don’t want anyone to come and tell me that I need to stay in my religion.
    Am I so stupid that other people need to make choices for me?

    For your information I came to Christianity when I was 18 years old and I knew what I was doing. No one force me or give me money or whatever to convert.

  • vicks

    People should have the right to change their religious beliefs. Putting in place an anti conversion law is just bullshit :o)

    “The forcing people to change their beliefs” part is rather disturbing.. what do you mean by that yashvin?

  • Anonymous

    By Yashvin : No valid name or email address given… Comment not displayed, though it was very interesting… a waste, unfortunately :(

  • http://www.twitter.com/Faisal___ Faisal…

    Religion is a personal thing and people should be free to choose their belief. It’s quite controversial to actually force people into other religion OR ban them from moving to other ones. In this sense, for these dictators are simply taking others belief into their hands by going AGAINST their own religion.

    The other thing is no one can really force you to believe what you do not want to. They can force you to perform rituals, force you to change (or keep) a certain type of names etc. but they cannot even read what is in your heart. In the same way, someone may act religious but who knows whether he is genuine or fooling people.

  • vicks

    i’ll like to add, some people raise these kind of points because frankly they have nothing else to do.

    whats really the purpose of hindu associations?? Are they here to monitor the number of hindu in the country?

    @axon: What do you mean by good or bad? are you infering that there is a good religion and a bad one??
    whatever religion you believe in should be of your choice not something impose on you by birth.

    @Tushal: i find your attitude rather rude, menace banla?? mate you have the right to refuse audience to them, there should be no need for menace!

  • http://fadil.fr/ Fadil

    ROFL!!!

    “Their fear to witness a decrease in hindus” >> They are RACIST!!! Does anybody get that? It’s very obvious!

  • Maverick

    I believe the current demographic status of Mu should be preserved for our own politico-socio and financial stability. Mauritius is by far the most politically stable country in the African continent. Toppling this balance might lead to many unforeseen effects. Mauritius has been independent since 1968 and apart from a few hitches, our society has not witnessed many upsets. Hinduism is extremely tolerant towards other religions. Hinduism is the world’s oldest religion and anyone born in this religion should be proud. Of course, if you follow corrupt priests and follow their words blindly, you will eventually lose the essence of what true Hinduism is.

  • bailleurk

    ene pomme res ene pomme. let’s not fool ourselves by calling it an orange!

  • http://twitter.com/girish Girish

    While its true that anyone can change his religion as he wishes to, I think its the most stupid thing someone can ever do. Either you believe in god (the religion you are born in) or not (atheist). Leaving one religion for another is an insult for both religions. It only demonstrates how weak a person is.

  • Maverick

    A quote from George Carlin::”Religion has actually convinced people that there’s an invisible man, living in the sky, who watches everything you do every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of 10 things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these 10 things, he has a special place full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish where he will send *you* to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever til the end of time…but he loves you.”

  • nasrullah

    Let the people free to choose what religion they want to follow…

  • Mike

    Engaging topic congrats. It would be impossible for MU government to adopt an anti-conversion law as this would run against Article 18 of the UN Universal Human Rights Declaration which Mauritius has adopted. The article states:
    Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching, practice, worship and observance.
    The argument for an anti-conversion law on the grounds that there are forced or coerced conversions is therefore rubbish. If indeed there is intimidation or forced conversion then there are laws to protect victims.
    Strange that certain religious denominations should feel threatened by possible conversions. Maybe this is a sign that they are not providing the spiritual sustenance that their devotees are thirsting for and thus are looking elsewhere. Either way, in a free society you will always have a certain amount of people changing religion, it is quite common and nothing alarming. I do not understand why the particular association is pushing the panic button unless they have some other motivation?

  • http://neodil.blogspot.com Dilraj

    Hi everybody.

    A religion is a way of living, beliefs in some traditions and beliefs in some values. Most religions achieve to make people’s lives better.

    And God in all this? Each religion makes people closer to God, or that divine force, that we may call God.

    Religion is private, and is according to one’s beliefs. Everybody should be free, in my opinion, to believe in a religion, to change religion and to experience as many religions as he/she wants. Because at the end of the day, one will find one religion that suits his/her personal beliefs. If not, he/she will create a new one.

    Hindus are majority, according to census. What if that is no more? Well, because Mauritius is Mauritius, and Mauritius is a country where change is not well seen, and where power (political and religious) doesn’t like change, there comes a problem. In the past, many countries have witnessed the change in religious beliefs of their people. This is not new.

    One should also understand that we need to respect the religion of others. So we can’t just say “there’s only one true religion.” That’s totally unfair. If one has super-faith his/her religion, others have same great super-faith in theirs too. And we need to respect this.

    Converting people? This should be according to one’s own will. We can’t force people to do so. Nor can we take advantage of one’s moment of despair to present “advantages” of “one God in one religion.”

    Though we have many religions, each teach more or less the same principles of life and more or less the same values. Of course, the way differs. But ultimately, the final goal of each religion is the same. So respect to all the people of the earth.

    Cheers,
    Dilraj

  • ReenaDKL

    Very interesting topic :)

    Well, am a hindu (proud to be) married to a Christian (proud to be). We had both weddings and there has never been an issue about whether I should convert or should he?

    You see it all depends on you. Though firm Hindus my parents always went to Père Laval and churches. At home we fast on Tuesdays etc…So I felt no need to convert nor did Michel ever wish for me to. Now that am married I still fast on Tuesdays and Michel (my husband) accompanies me everywhere i wish to go for prayers.

    So,

    @ Tushal: “menace zot” yeah, i believe you coz I have parents who converted to ‘mission’ (as we call them) and they can be real pain at times…
    but i’ve put it very clearly that I have no whatever intention of changing who I am.

    I am very proud of my origins and I believe everyone should be proud of what he has as origins…of course, you also have the right to change if you feel like, but make sure it’s what YOU want not the influence of others…

    I now have a 6months old daughter and she will be baptised and will do hindi at school. Is she a hindu or a Catholic??? She’s the fruit of love and love has no religion :)

    She is both I like to say. Hindu/Christian. She will live with both cultures and take the best out of each…Hinduism and Christianism…for she is a Mauritian first of all :)

  • Bernardo

    Those who fear are the ones we should fear..

  • Maverick

    I strongly believe that door to door religious peddling should be outlawed. Why do is door to door salesmanship required to spread the “word of god”?? Is it because they want to boost their flock?

    I have personally witnessed a Jehovah missionary trying his best to persuade a cancer stricken patient to join their group in order to gain salvation. And this occured at the hospital. I would really like to know who finances this organisation and where do all their money go.

  • TL

    I never understand how you can force someone to change his/her religion!! do they put a knife to your throat? do they kidnap you and brainwash you? do they threaten you and your family?
    please shed some light on this forced conversion
    TL

  • Aum

    I believe the root of all this evil is POWER and MONEY. The Government should have strict control on all the money that goes to any socio-cultural organisation. After all, the Mauritian Rupee is the property of the Mauritian Government. All socio-cultural organisations should be thoroughly audited, if possible many times in a year, and they should produce monthly reports as to how they are spending that money.

  • http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/ban-tulsi-on-mbc/signatures Keshav Jokhun

    Lots to debate on this, and as usual Mr the one & only keshav jokhun is very busy..lol..so just to say a few words..

    hmm…we r in a democracy..pple shuld b allow to convert.. moreover religion is ascribed, not achieved..the law shuld b made to empower pple, to give the the chance to decide for THEIR life.. pple r mature enuf to decide abt this issue..

    Howeva..sa bne ‘dimoune’ la ena kout exagerer.. enta fois zot vin devan la port dire converti zot pou gne sa, zot pou gne lot..bon dieu ici, apart nou religion tou foss..bla..bla..n all these… mem ki enta fois mo papa maltraite banla, shameless pple cme again n agin..

    To be neutral, i wuld say, no anti-conversion law shuld b introduced.. bt bt bt!!!!!!! sa bne dimoune la bizin aret vin devan la port dimoune pou essaye convincre ou ‘couyone’ bne malin (moricien).
    Si bne malin (as i refer to mauritians again..) envi converti, zey shuld b free.. bt there shuld b no kind on inteference, n surtou pa pressure..
    so..bref.. si sa bne dimoune la arret vin devan la port dimoune pou influence dimoune, i think pa bizin aukun anti-c0onversion law.. bne malin pou fer cki zot feel right.. ;)

  • Maverick

    The following is an extract from the October 1967 edition of the Watchtower which is the propaganda vehicle of the Jehovah witness:

    Following Faithful Shepherds with Life in View”, The Watchtower, October 1, 1967, page 591, “Make haste to identify the visible theocratic organization of God that represents his king, Jesus Christ. It is essential for life. Doing so, be complete in accepting its every aspect … in submitting to Jehovah’s visible theocratic organization, we must be in full and complete agreement with every feature of its apostolic procedure and requirements.”

    In essence, this organisation is demanding its flock to follow god’s visible theocratic organisation on Earth, the JEHOVAH WITNESS. Pay attention to the wordings: “king”,”submitting”, “full and complete agreement”

    Do you really believe this organisation allows its congregation to freely think for themselves?

  • Shazia

    Anti-conversion law? This is absurd. People should be free to choose. Nobody has the right to impose a religion on others. What kind of short-mindedness is being shown in this country! I wish people would believe they are Mauritians above all.

  • http://kailash.balnac.com Kailash

    Things fall apart my friend.

  • Mike

    @Maverick: In Europe, there have been several investigations into the organisation of Jeovah Witness after several complaints from ex-members. In France and Belgium they are classified as sects by parliamentary committees. There is a very good investigation by the RTBF (francophone TV in Belgium) on the subject which looks at the loss of freedoms of members. The videos are on YouTube (7 parts in French):
    Le Monde Parfait de Jehovah

    MU authorities have a very relaxed and free attitude especially towards various external religious influences that visit the country to give teachings and conferences. Quite a few of the ones that are now resident and in operation here have either been classified in Europe as a sect or at least with suspicion of having sectarian aspects. Having said that there is a fine line between freedom of religion and imposing restrictions in order to protect potential victims.

    Continuing on the theme of anti-conversion law, as mentioned above it is against the UN human rights declaration which MU has adopted. You can imagine that even if MU government was to initiate such a law it would bring outrage on the international political scene. This in turn would bring down sanctions on the country. One such sanction would immediately come from the EU because every EU-Mauritius agreement has a human rights clause. This means that if the country no longer respects human rights, development grants and cooperation worth millions of Euros can be frozen. It would be political suicide for this country in many aspects of the economy. With all this it is unlikely that the authorities can take any restrictive action other than that provided for in law for the control of crowd gatherings.

    Which still leaves other questions regarding the association making complaints, just what is it that they are afraid of and why?

  • Yashna

    Hey hey!!!hpe ur fine…i saw ur link on msn so i thought about reading it..its a kinda sensitive mater in mauritius,with what ur saying and the comments of the media(i think in defi). Honestly im hindu and i respect my religion. But im also a very open girl. What ur saying in the blog,i partly agree with it,indeed there has been people who force or make us believe that this religion is beter.but the reason why people change their religion is that they lack faith in their current religion. Hindus are known to lose faith very easily from their religion and as soon as someone shows up and convince them that miracles can happen when ur convert into this religion then they easily believe in it! I have faith in my religion..i will never chnge my religion. But that doesnt meqn that im gona downgrde those who do it.they have their reasons and maybe impotant reasons. But also its a pretty sad fact that people refuse to agree that their true religion can be worthwhile too. And apart from not considering religion maters, we are all human guys..lets just live up to it. If u think that ur extraordinary or making the world a beter place to live,well tht will be just in ur mind. (think i went out of subject)..bon anyways..bubyeeee:)

  • http://nayarweb.co.cc Nayar

    Religion is a personal belief thingy. Law has nothing to do with it.
    If the law messes with it, Rules of democracy will be clearly violated.

    There is only ONE God and all religions came from him.
    Religions were brought to earth depending on the maturity of people.

    How could you explain cavemen not to open anonymous emails???
    It was just not suitable to tell them at that time. It is more important to teach them how to find food

    As mankind became more mature, new laws could be introduced to them according to their intelligence.

    Therefore, God constantly sends down messengers (Prophets) to guide mankind.

    Krishna, Jesus, Moses, Boudha,Noah, Mohammed(saw) are messengers of God. Some of you accept some while other reject some. You need to accept all and believe in them.

    Another example:
    Could Microsoft release windows 7 when Pentium 1 was developed?
    But when dual cores have been developed, Microsft released windows 7 and everyone upgraded their OS.

  • http://prayers-request.blogspot.com/ jo

    TO THE WORLD RELIGIOUS LEADERS
    With every day that passes, danger grows that the rising fires of religious prejudice will ignite a worldwide conflagration the consequences of which are unthinkable. Such a danger civil government, unaided, cannot overcome. Nor should we delude ourselves that appeals for mutual tolerance can alone hope to extinguish animosities that claim to possess Divine sanction. The crisis calls on religious leadership for a break with the past as decisive as those that opened the way for society to address equally corrosive prejudices of race, gender and nation. Whatever justification exists for exercising influence in matters of conscience lies in serving the well-being of humankind. At this greatest turning point in the history of civilization, the demands of such service could not be more clear. ‘The well-being of mankind, its peace and security, are unattainable’, Bahá’u’lláh urges, ‘unless and until its unity is firmly established.’”

    THE UNIVERSAL HOUSE OF JUSTICE

  • http://prayers-request.blogspot.com/ jo

    Religion is one
    “… the time has come when religious leadership must face honestly andwithout further evasion the implications of the truth that God is one and that,beyond all diversity of cultural expression and human interpretation, religion is likewise one.”

    –Universal House of Justice

  • Yashna

    Religion is a man-made invention, they are all the same, but still an ‘anti-conversion’ law?? That’s just BS, adults have the right to make their own decisions, this is a democracy, imposing a religion on others is less likely to make them adopt it.

  • Torpedo

    Eh bein…! Si tout dimoun ti aussi bien-élvé ki tou bann commentateurs ici-présents, bein, pas ti pou ena bann cinéma kouma nou pé gagner are Missier Ajeet Gopal. Missier Gopal, ou ek ou bann compères sectaires couma Krit Manohur, Cehl Meeah, Faisal Boodhoo, Devarajen Kanaksabee, Mario Flore, Père Grégoire, ek sipaki leaders de secte (Hare Krishna, mormons, pentecotiste, ministry of light, CMIT, sipaki enkor, ki, soyons francs, nek la pou courtise and/or exploite dimoune ki temporairement retrouve zott dans enn grand detresse kot zott proche pas ti la pou soutenir zott) quand ou pas envie merge into the mainstream, when don’t think that the mainstream is for you, then go away. Comme nou leader vénéré et vénérable du Party Malin dirrr, lev paké allé! Alle kott ou envie, L’Inde, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Salk Lake City etc, mais pas vinn polluer nou la-vie, pas vinn manz nou la paix ki déjà assez contaminé par embouteillage, corruption, etc, etc… Alors, vous, Dodolandais, continuer propage l’amour de ou prochain et ress loin ar bann diviseurs, c’est sel recette pour la paix intérieure et sociale. Amen. Om shaanti. Aham doul’illah!

    Last but no least: fauder faire missier Gopal comprend ki hindouisme c’est enn philosophie, pas enn religion (eski ou capave “converti” enn non-Hindou en Hindou?). Alors, si ou pas comprend ça, ki ou pé faire tapaz, mon cher? Arett insulter ou prop intelligence (si ou éna…)

    NB: pou saki comprend ki tou sa tam-tam la li bien risible, enn ti-dialog dépoi Guignols de l’Info: PPDA termine enn l’emission en disant: “Jusqu’à preuve du contraire, Dieu n’est qu’une hypothèse. Vous regardez trop la télévision: A-tchao bon Dimanche!”

  • ReenaDKL

    i think Torpedo has a point here:

    “eski ou capave “converti” enn non-Hindou en Hindou?”

    there is no way in converting non-hindus to hindus…maybe because we are the most tolerant ones…

    OR funny thing is that in this case everyone is born Hindu until they convert by baptism or anything else…lol!!!

    so many hindus convert yet you don’t see Hindus knocking on people’s door preaching hinduism and trying to convert them…pff!!! Hinduism is far more than a religious point of view…it’s too profound that most hindus don’t even understand the core of it (even i still have a lot to learn and understand)…

    Politicians and especially our dear “leader” uses this to DIVIDE AND RULE…bref won’t go out of subject…

  • Raj K-B

    i believe religious instruction is a good thing. But I have always believed religion or at least spirituality to be a personal thing and something that you willingly engage in, once you are old enough to know what you are doing (which may vary – selon la maturite de la personne) – An anti-conversion law, to me, seems highly repressive as no one has the right to make me believe or not in something or to prevent me from expressing my beliefs in whichever way I want. Whether I change religion or not should not concern the whole society but it is true it might have an impact upon our immediate family – and should be discussed with them! Rather than running with pitchforks after someone out of fear of “faith-drain”, I would suggest to those for this law to learn to live with differences and learn to live your faith fully. Qu’on regarde vers soi-meme avant d’envoyer la premiere pierre. My thoughts :)

  • Jay

    @TORPEDO
    “sipaki leaders de secte (Hare Krishna, mormons, pentecotiste, ministry of light, CMIT, sipaki enkor, ki, soyons francs, nek la pou courtise and/or exploite dimoune ki temporairement retrouve zott dans enn grand detresse”

    Avc tout le respect ke j vous doit…Mais pou dire ki tou sa bane sectes la zot la pou exploite dimoune sipaki, li comment plus insenser ki mone lire..Dimoune la couyon li,li pena lesprit ki nerporte ki secte vini kot so laporte li gagne courtiser…??!!!…Sa c selment pour faire ressortir ki tou dimoune ena so droit personel pren so decision et decider dan ki secte,religion ou institution li envi suive…Apres kan ou pa konne 1 zafere lor 1 secte li vo mieux ou ress trankil..Hare Krishna par exemple aka ISCKON(International Society for Krishna Consciousness, c pa 1 SECTE sa, personne pa force ou dire ou vine dan sa secte la…Et pui c pa 1 secte oci acoz pena conversion dedan, pena okene rites conversion,c open a tous,irrespectable de ki religion ou eter, dan tou pays du monde meme en Pakistan ou Afganistan ena 1 centre ISCKON…C parceki mo konne a propos de sa societer isckon la ki mo p dire ou saa….Mo respecter tou sa societer mentionner la haut la..Sakene gagne droit pren so decision..Si dimoune la p truver ki li p gagne la paix et satisfaction en suivant tel secte, b li gagne droit suive 1 secte…

    IMPORTANT-P koz CONVERSION ici la, TORPEDO pa p koz lor bane institutions ou bane centres…ISCKON etc pa converti dimoune sa…C selment 1 instituion kot ou ale ecoute bon kozer, relax et gagne 1 pe la paix spirituel..Moi personelment mone senti sa..Et personne labas pane dire moi ou bizin change religion ou faire 1 ceremonie pou baptise ou pou change religion, non, l;i tou le contraire….

    Alor please kan ou kozer li vaut mieux ou lire 2 fois ceki ou p ecrire…Et konne faire comparaison..P coz conversion de Hindu en catholik par eg pa p koz lor frekentation bane institutions..

  • http://www.yashvinblogs.com Yashvin

    Notice

    Hi everyone. Please avoid taking names of religious communities/associations etc… Thanks a lot for participating by voicing out your concerns ;)

  • http://fadil.fr/ Fadil

    These folks are scared of:

    1. Exposure that their community and religious leaders are not doing their job properly. If are people are converting to another faith (or turn into atheists,) something is wrong there. How to hide this fact, they blame it on forced conversion whatever it means.

    2. Becoming a minority for they are racists! Beneath the gay rainbow of tolerance and understanding (as one people and 1 nation, etc.), lies the racism.

    3. Of being challenged by other communities and atheists when it comes to faith.

    Should there be an anti-conversion law? No! The freedom of beliefs should not be perverted because of some pussy racists! There, I said it.

  • yiu

    music is my religion :D

  • http://www.webdesign-bureau-of-mauritius.com/ Sachin

    All in all it looks like religion is following what the world is becoming, i.e, religion is now becoming a product with people advertising about how great one’s religion is and others are either buying into it or not. Welcome in our Mauritian consumerist world. As for the anti-conversion law… that is “apré la mor la tisane”. Each one has entered the race and once they see that it gets out of hand they look for political backing to try settle things knowing that religion still stays the basis of our political culture.

    Anyway, Mauritian web designers might find a new niche to exploit: religion conversion websites.

  • http://dhaneesha.com Dhaneesha

    we are MAURITIANS! c tou… :)same nation, same religion!

  • Maverick

    Hi JO.

    I guess you are referring to the Bahai “religion”. Did you know that the leadership of this sect has been handed down the family of the founder for some time?

    Is it not true that you have to be interviewed by a representative and given a special ID number when you join this sect?

    I did not know God required so much bureaucracy….

  • Maverick

    Jo,

    Picture this:

    A world government is in place. Obedience to the government is compulsory. Involvement in bipartisan politics in not allowed. There is one world religion which adopted bits and pieces from all major religions. Everyone over the age of 15 must individually recite an obligatory prayer each day. You can elect your religious representative but she can never be a woman as females are banned from the governing body. But your ELECTED religious representative is not accountable to his electors.

    Sounds familiar Jo? I bet it does. All of the above is not the fruit of my imagination. They are what the Bahai religion stands for. Still don’t believe me? Do your research…

  • Maverick

    FOOD FOR THOUGHT

    What you have here is a perfect example whereby an ideology which is pushing for a world government and works hand in hand with the UN to implement its objectives. They claim to be fighting for equality and justice when they ban women from their “Universal House of Justice”. Bahá’u’lláh, the founder of Bahai wants its followers to refrain from questioning the authority, to shun other political ideologies. If you are naive enough to wish to join their sect, you will have to be interviewed first. You are even given a unique ID number once you join.

    You may be not aware of it, but the Bahai religion is the fastest growing religion and it the second most widespread religion (200 countries) after Christianity. Is it a coincidence that in the year 2000, the only non governmental speaker at the Millennium Forum was a Bahai representative – a religion of only 6 million followers??

    Is it a mere coincidence that the Bahai religion gained consultative status with:

    United Nations Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC)
    United Nations Children’s Fund (UNICEF)
    World Health Organization (WHO)
    United Nations Development Fund for Women (UNIFEM)
    United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP)

    WHY IS THE UNITED NATIONS GRANTING SO MUCH POWER AND INCENTIVES AND PROMOTING A NEW AND MINORITY MOVEMENT??

    WHY DOES SUCH A SMALL RELIGION HAS THEIR OFFICE AT THE HEART OF THE UNITED NATIONS IN NEW YORK AND GENEVA???

    WHY DO THEY HAVE THE CONSULTATIVE STATUS WITH THE UN ECONOMIC AND SOCIAL ENGINEERING???

    ARE WE WITNESSING A SLOW AND PROGRESSIVE WORLDWIDE SOCIAL ENGINEERING THROUGH A RELIGION WHICH HAS A GLOBAL APPEAL. AFTER ALL, THE BAHAI FAITH HAS BORROWED BITS AND PIECES FROM ALL MAJOR RELIGIONS.

    THINK ABOUT IT, WHAT IS STANDING IN THE WAY OF A WORLD GOVERNMENT? A MULTITUDE OF RELIGIONS! WE ARE FAITHFUL TO OUR OWN RELIGION WHICH ARE IN MOST CASES, RELIGIONS WHICH HAVE STOOD THE TEST OF TIME. THIS IS A MAJOR HURDLE FOR THE ELITES.

    SO IT MAKES SENSE TO PROMOTE A RELIGION WHICH HAS A GLOBAL APPEAL ACROSS THE WHOLE SPECTRUM. A RELIGION WHICH SHUNS DISOBEDIENCE TO GOVERNMENT AND MEMBERSHIP TO OTHER POLITICAL PARTIES. A RELIGION WHICH WANTS TO CREATE A UNIVERSAL LANGUAGE, A UNIVERSAL COURT.

    I AGREE PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO BELIEVE IN WHAT THEY WISH TO BELIEVE. BUT BLIND FAITH IS DANGEROUS.

    WE HAVE SOMETHING BETWEEN OUR EARS AND IT IS CALLED A BRAIN. DON’T JUST JOIN THE FLOCK AND BE SHEPHERDED. WE ARE NOT SHEEP, WE ARE HUMANS.

  • unbiased believer

    This anti-conversion law proposal is the most stupid thing I ever heard after the “1 sel lepep 1 sel nation” slogan. Anyone can believe in anything whether the religion states that one should believe in god, gods, aliens or guinea pigs… It doesn’t f**king concern anyone if I want to change my religion even if I am convinced by blatantly dubious promises that will not be fulfilled by joining my new religion…

    Man, if you want that a hindu no longer converts to another religion, then use the same techniques as in other religions, for e.g in some religions,(that I will not cite) it is strictly forbidden to become an apostate or else you will burn and be tortured in hell eternally or god will send fireballs on you as punishment for the renunciation of your god and your religion. Then the very idea of changing religion will scare the shit out of your people and hence your lost lambs have little chance of converting to another religion…

    If the very effective fear of god technique doesn’t work on your lost lambs then you can bait them by using more subtle marketing technique… For e.g in some other religions they propose that when you get to go to paradise, because you are a very “good” person, you will get x number of virgins and lots of fun everyday (with the virgins of course) Now the simplest thing to do is to outbid those offers like religious leaders can suddenly interpret a section of a sacred god-inspired book written by ordinary horny men that was thinking about only one thing at the time of writing that give paradise dwellers x+10 or x+20 or in any case a number much larger than x virgins… This will ensure that your people will blindly follow your religion without asking questions. On top of that you can expect people converting to your religion with that kind of offer…

    You see it’s very easy to keep and even lure new believers in your religion… You have to know a bit about marketing and you have to invent interpret sections and paragraphs of your already existing religious books in such a way that will attract more followers. You see the demand for an anti-conversion law will make you look racist but if you make apostasy illegal in your religion, nobody will care and nobody will call your religious books racist because religious books are always right and sacred.

    Completely out of subject part: while I completely disagree with the idea of anti-conversion law, I fully support an “anti-transfuge” law that was proposed by our great beloved leader of Party Malin :P

  • imperium

    dudes!!!!

    DO you guys really believe that religion matters so much today!!
    we are in a global world full of competition, all that we need to be happy is financial security for our family, not a group of fanatics debating on which religion is the best to follow.
    religion is good as an identity but for leading a joyful life, i think, one should really care about how much financially secure he or she is!
    yep!
    thats what i think!

  • Maverick

    Hinduism cannot be defined as a religion. Religions impose artificial restrictions and boundaries. Religions tend to be structured like any other governments. Religions tend to have rules and regulations, just like a government. Religions punish anyone who dares step outside its pre-defined boundaries and rules, just like a government. Religions are here to keep us in check and to preserve a hierarchy in society. Religions tend to provide answers to all your questions, just like governments making empty promises.

    So Hinduism cannot be a religion. It is a complex and diversified but at the same time a unified mass of spiritual thought.

    Hinduism does not provide answers. Hinduism provides a path to the truth. It is up to you to understand and use the ideology of Hinduism.

    Many people cannot assimilate this nectar which is the product of millennia of meditation and education by wise men, so they go for quick fix or “fast food” religions which provide answers.

    Life is a journey, a journey of self exploration. Hinduism is an essential tool for this journey.

    Hinduism has been here before religions and will remain after religions have long gone. Why? Because truth will always remain.

    Hinduism as we know it has been hijacked by charlatans over the years. Hindu “priests” have failed in their duty to explain and propagate the true meanings and teachings of Hinduism. They have exploited people for money and power.

    A renaissance in Hinduism is much needed in this violent and unjust world of materialism.

    ——————-
    The Gayatri Mantra:

    “We meditate on the transcendental glory of
    the Deity Supreme,
    who is inside the heart of the earth,
    inside the life of the sky,
    and inside the soul of the heaven.
    May He stimulate and illumine our minds. “

  • Maverick

    imperium said:
    dudes!!!!

    DO you guys really believe that religion matters so much today!!
    we are in a global world full of competition, all that we need to be happy is financial security for our family, not a group of fanatics debating on which religion is the best to follow.
    religion is good as an identity but for leading a joyful life, i think, one should really care about how much financially secure he or she is!
    yep!
    thats what i think!
    ——————————–

    YEP! THIS IS MATERIALISM, THAT’S WHAT I THINK! :-)

  • http://reenadkl.blogspot.com/ ReenaDKL

    this is what i posted on Kailash’s blog:

    “I could be an example of cultural diversity :)

    My dad’s a hindu
    my mum a marathi
    my husband a catholic
    my daughter’s godmother is chinese….

    yes, i believe in diversity and respeceting other religions..but unfortunately some nut heads are pushing things too far…

    most of my mum’s family are converted…i think marathi are the most targeted ones..a small community and once you have one parent converted, the whole flock follows….”

  • Maverick

    We have grouped people whose cultural heritage are associated to Hinduism as Hindus. These protestors are fighting to preserve their culture identity.

    It’s a shame to see many Mauritians of Indian origin falling into the age old trap of divide and rule.

    I guess only a few cells of the grey matter is required to figure out Marathi speakers, Tamil speakers, Telegu speakers and hindi speakers are part of the same big and proud Indian cultural heritage. In the Indian sub continent, they are all classified as Hindus.

    Reena, For you to believe your dad is “Hindu” and your mum “Marathi” is beyond my logic. This proves your ignorance about your own cultural background.

    How did we allow this vile grey haired man split up our brothers and sisters?

    How did we allow Berenger, a man who has never worked his whole life, who enjoyed the worker’s union money and who was deported from France while he was a student for being troublesome, to hijack our community.

    Berenger is a spin doctor who is bent on preserving the grip of the descendents of slave masters on the Mauritian economy.

    Divide and rule is the oldest trick in the colonial book.

    So, he has divided and they are ruling.

  • http://reenadkl.blogspot.com/ ReenaDKL

    @ Maverick:

    “Reena, For you to believe your dad is “Hindu” and your mum “Marathi” is beyond my logic. This proves your ignorance about your own cultural background. ”

    Dear, i am not an ignorant who does not know about her own cultural or religious background…you misunderstand my words….

    when i say my dad is hindu i mean of indian origins(for my great grandfathers do come from Bihar which is in India…) following hinduism…do i have to explain for my mum, my husband and my daughter’s godmother too???? we are MAURITIANS first of all but of different origins…is that too hard to understand???

    pffff!!!!!! ….

  • Joshua

    @Reena I agree with you on most of ur point:

    except this:
    “i think marathi are the most targeted ones..a small community and once you have one parent converted, the whole flock follows….”

    If you are referring to converted to mission then I will need to intervene.

    As far as I am concerned , we do not target anyone.
    Do you think that we have our marketing department to target and use all kind of tactics to attract people?
    Do you think that we do market research to find out where there is a market, then use segmentation and targeting strategies(yes I have a marketing degree lol)

    Don’t trust what other people say. Go ask those people that converted why they did so.

  • http://reenadkl.blogspot.com/ ReenaDKL

    @ Joshua…

    thnx…i might have misuse the word ‘target’…what i really meant was that most of my mum’s family is converted and I know the origins of he whole converting issue…I know who started it and how it got spread this fast.

    One example is my mum’s sister who had an awful accident and she spent like 2 weeks in the ICU almost dead…we all prayed for her..in our own ways..but then an aunt just came each and everyday and told her that if she converts she will heal quicker etc (not that it happened)…and the whole ‘this’ and ‘that’…

    My mum’s sis agreed and now she’s converted. What I mean is that people who are suffering and in difficult situations are the most vulnerables ones…this is where “some” i say it again “some” people influence them…AND this is where i get all angry at both parties…why convert when in difficulty??? no one has the secret to painless life till date..no ‘potion magic..”…just have faith!! but unfortunately this is what many people lack…

    AND am angry at those who look for the vulnerable people and influenece them…

    this is my point…

  • http://w-e-consult.com Anton

    If you would look into the other extreme in the history related to Religion – after 1917 in Soviet Union, Bolsheviks prohibited all the Confessions and Religions. The country have had several generations of atheists. Churches, mosques, synagogues, Buddha temples were partially closed or destroyed. Did they manage to success? Way no. People were practicing secretly and it helped to keep the identity of the groups and nationalities in a way. Mothers were praying during the World War Two for their sons and husbands, and right after the collapse of the Iron Wall, first thing that was done – they started to re-innovate and rebuild churches, introduce Religion classes in schools etc. And imagine it happened in a country that has 9 time zones and it will take you two weeks by train to travel from one end to the other. Thins are more sensitive when the community is small, but it would not be a smart movement to put government regulations on the Religion choice. Smart thing would be to have a proper representative voices of the different religions in Government and decision/law making parliament process.

  • Maverick

    Hello Joshua,

    I believe your name, Joshua (Yehoshua), is the Hebrew word for Jesus.
    If you don’t mind, can you share the reasons behind your conversion ?
    (“Don’t trust what other people say. Go ask those people that converted why they did so”)

    Reena,

    These are your own words:

    My dad’s a hindu
    my mum a marathi

    I commented on what you wrote. Does your statement above makes any sense to you?

  • Maverick

    Reena,

    I agree with your last statement. I have witnessed vulnerable people being duped and promised salvation and cure for all their problems if they join this organisation

  • http://reenadkl.blogspot.com/ ReenaDKL

    @ Maverick:

    My dad’s a hindu – he’s a hindu by faith..not an indian (resident of india)

    my mum a marathi – shes’s a marathi by faith…

    BUT ARE MAURITIANS BY BIRTH…

    pfff….

    I AM A MAURITIAN of indian origins, following hinduism…

    for e.g someone following Buddha’s principles is called a Buddhist…pfff!!!!

  • Maverick

    Reena, you do “pfff” a lot!

    I wish I can make it more simpler that this:

    Marathi != A religion

    (!= mean not equal, it’s not the same!)

    Marathi = Language

    Dictionary:

    Marathi /məˈrɑːti/ DJ /mÉ™’rÉ‘tɪ/ KK /-ræti/ DJ
    a language spoken in India noun uncountable
    Variant: Mahratti

  • Maverick

    Can you follow the logic?

    In Spain, they speak Spanish. Is their religion Spanish? (Yes/No)

    In Italy, they speak Italian. Is their religion Italian? (Yes/No)

    In India, they speak Hindi, Marathi, Tamil, Telegu, Sanskrit, Malayam etc.. These languages are known as Indo Aryan languages. Is their religion Marathi or Tamil or Telegu or Malayam or Sanskrit? (Yes/No)

    If you have answered YES to any of the above,

    Me = Give up!

  • http://reenadkl.blogspot.com/ ReenaDKL

    @ Maverick:

    my dad is hindu NOT HINDI :P

    “Marāthā (Marathi: मराठा, also Mahratta) has three related usages: within the Marathi speaking region it describes the dominant Maratha caste; outside Maharashtra it can refer to the entire regional population of Marathi-speaking people…”

    we do have different encyclopedia!

    :)

    lol! am done fighting over this…all i meant was to say that my family is consisted of various cultures, religious belief and origins…can’t be clearer neither :p

  • Maverick

    @ Reena:

    BANG! BANG! BANG!
    .
    .
    .
    .
    I have just shot myself three times in the head!
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Wait, I am crawling back to my keyboard…
    .
    .
    .
    I think I have a piece of brain matter left..It should be enough to type the following:

    Maratha != religion …. IT IS NOT A RELIGION
    Caste != religion

    Shivaji (1627-1680) established the Hindavi Swarajya (Sovereign Hindu state)Marathas consider themselves to be the saviours of Hinduism who fought the onslaught of fanatic Mughal Emperor Aurangjeb.

    SOURCE: http://www.maratha.net/
    .
    .
    .

    BANG!!

  • http://reenadkl.blogspot.com/ ReenaDKL

    RIP Maverick

    I’ll write this on your tombstone though:

    “My mum’s ancestors come from Maharashtra…and speak, learn Marathi..it is a culture”

    ****** flowers for you

    will visit your grave once per year “fete des morts”….(unless you are incinerated)…

    :P

  • http://www.yashvinblogs.com Yashvin

    @ReenaDKL, @Maverick : Thanks God you have both decided to stop here.
    WAIT! Did I say god? pff! No, I can’t be serious!

  • Maverick
  • guibs

    Well this is a very sensible issue!
    Personally each & everyone has the right to choose any religion he/she wants.
    Mauritius belongs to everybody & any community or group must have the right to express his thoughts or do a public gathering (legally}. We are all taxpayers & have equal rights.

    Triolet, Roche Bois or Plaine Verte or any other region do not belong to any specific community, otherwise there should have been borders…
    Anti-conversion is illegal & shows the vulnerability of some people wanting to enforce it.

    Suppose the laws are enforced and people cannot convert BUT how can we prevent them from practicing another religion….quite difficult…

  • http://kailash.balnac.com Kailash

    @ReenaDKL

    Maverick is right. Marathi or even Telegu are languages and should not be confused with religion. One may be a Marathi and be either christian, jew, buddhist, muslim or even hindu, like it is the case in Maharastra. Marathi speaking people should not be confused with the maratha caste. (Castes are useless nowadays anyways, no need to elaborate on that).

    Most marathi speaking people in Mauritius hail from Maharastra and are mostly hindus like most telegu speakers, hindi speakers, tamil speakers or Gujrati speakers. People tend to segregate those people by wrongly thinking that they are from different religions. However they may be united under the same religion but culturally they are different. For example, the way they dress, the food they eat and their rites and traditions.

    This difference in culture within people of indian origin or amongst other cultures like chinese, african and european should be preserved at all costs. This difference is an asset and form the basis of the mauritian culture.

    My opinion is that traditions, rites, the way we dress, what we eat is heavily coupled with religion. If people start to convert and divert from their religion of origin they may start to neglect their ancestral culture and it will bring uniformity. Uniformity is utterly dull; I want to be able to eat vermicelli on eid; I want to be able to eat sweets for diwali; I want to continue to enjoy easter eggs.

    We should be wary of people who might try to deviate the weak from their ancestral culture. Imagine a world full of Ned Flanders. I do not think any coercive technique like legislation is morally right or is going to work to face these types of threats. A better way is to participate in your ancestral culture so that your children can continue to enjoy our diversity, our uniqueness.

  • http://prayers-request.blogspot.com/ jo

    @ Maverick – my friend sorry so many prejudiced statements u ptoclain just to clarify ,, The Bahai faith is not a sect it is a world independent religion ,The Faith’s Founder was Bahá’u’lláh, a Persian nobleman from Tehran who, in the mid-nineteenth century, left a life of princely comfort and security and, in the face of intense persecution and deprivation, brought to humanity a stirring new message of peace and unity.

    Bahá’u’lláh claimed to be nothing less than a new and independent Messenger from God. His life, work, and influence parallel that of Abraham, Krishna, Moses, Zoroaster, Buddha, Christ, and Muhammad. Bahá’ís view Bahá’u’lláh as the most recent in this succession of divine Messengers.

  • http://prayers-request.blogspot.com/ jo

    @ Maverick my new loving friend ===Prayer Indispensable and Obligatory

    The use of prayer and the contemplation of sacred scripture are enjoined upon Bahá’ís in no uncertain terms. Bahá’u’lláh says in the Kitab-i-Aqdas (His Book of Laws):
    Recite ye the verses of God every morn and eventide. Whoso faileth to recite them hath not been faithful to the Covenant of God and His Testament, and whoso turneth away from these holy verses in this Day is of those who throughout eternity have turned away from God. Fear ye God, O My servants, one and all. Pride not yourselves on much reading of the verses or on a multitude of pious acts by night and day; for were a man to read a single verse with joy and radiance it would be better for him than to read with lassitude all the Holy Books of God, the Help in Peril, the Self-Subsisting. Read ye the sacred verses in such measure that ye be not overcome by languor and despondency. Lay not upon your souls that which will weary them and weigh them down, but rather what will lighten and uplift them, so that they may soar on the wings of the Divine verses towards the Dawning-place of His manifest signs; this will draw you nearer to God, did ye but comprehend.
    `Abdu’l-Bahá says to a correspondent: “O thou spiritual friend! Know thou that prayer is indispensable and obligatory, and man under no pretext whatever is excused therefrom unless he be mentally unsound or an insurmountable obstacle prevent him.”

    Another correspondent asked: “Why pray? What is the wisdom thereof, for God has established everything and executes all affairs after the best order — therefore, what is the wisdom in beseeching and supplicating and in stating one’s wants and seeking help?”

    `Abdu’l-Bahá replied:

    Know thou, verily it is becoming in a weak one to supplicate to the Strong One, and it behooveth a seeker of bounty to beseech the Glorious Bountiful One. When one supplicates to his Lord, turns to Him and seeks bounty from His Ocean, this supplication brings light to his heart, illumination to his sight, life to his soul and exaltation to his being.
    During thy supplications to God and thy reciting, “Thy Name is my healing,” consider how thine heart is cheered, thy soul delighted by the spirit of the love of God, and thy mind attracted to the Kingdom of God! By these attractions one’s ability and capacity increase. When the vessel is enlarged the water increases, and when the thirst grows the bounty of the cloud becomes agreeable to the taste of man. This is the mystery of supplication and the wisdom of stating one’s wants.8

    Apart from revealing a wide body of prayers and meditations pertaining to all aspects of life, Bahá’u’lláh has revealed three daily obligatory prayers. The believer is free to choose any one of these three prayers, but is under the obligation of reciting one of them, and in the manner Bahá’u’lláh has prescribed.

    Bahá’í prayer is not, however, confined to the use of prescribed forms, important as those are. Bahá’u’lláh teaches that one’s whole life should be a prayer, that work done in the right spirit is worship, that every thought, word and deed devoted to the Glory of God and the good of one’s fellows is prayer, in the truest sense of the world.

  • http://reenadkl.blogspot.com/ ReenaDKL

    @ Kailash:

    i don’t agree about the marathi thing…my family members who are converted no longer call themselves “Marathi” as we call it here in Mauritius…they like to be called Christians now…so…

    AND once again, you are all misunderstanding my point of view..all i wanted to say was that am the fruit of 2 different cultures, religious belief…pin pointing my comments is not the topic here…

    ayo papa o !!!

  • http://prayers-request.blogspot.com/ jo

    @ Maverick my new loving friend said …. ” THE BAHAI FAITH HAS BORROWED BITS AND PIECES FROM ALL MAJOR RELIGIONS”. my last respond to you my dear friend and i wont make it any more its not the issue of this forum –__Bahá’ís believe that there is only one God, the Creator of the universe. Throughout history, God has revealed Himself to humanity through a series of divine Messengers, each of Whom has founded a great religion. The Messengers have included Abraham, Krishna, Zoroaster, Moses, Buddha, Jesus, and Muhammad. This succession of divine Teachers reflects a single historic “plan of God” for educating humanity about the Creator and for cultivating the spiritual, intellectual, and moral capacities of the race. The goal has been to develop the innate noble characteristics of every human being, and to prepare the way for an advancing global civilization. Knowledge of God’s will for humanity in the modern age, Bahá’ís believe, was revealed just over one hundred years ago by Bahá’u’lláh, Who is the latest of these divine Messengers.

    in a few words again..
    All humanity is one family.
    Women and men are equal.
    All prejudice—racial, religious, national, or economic—is destructive and must be overcome.
    Bahá’u’lláh gave special attention to the problem of prejudice. At the heart of His message is a call for mutual understanding and fellowship among nations, cultures, and peoples.

    There is, Bahá’u’lláh insists, only one human race. Prejudice—whether based on race, ethnicity, nationality, religion, or social background—must be overcome if humanity is to create a peaceful and just global society.

    Abandoning prejudice »
    We must investigate truth for ourselves, without preconceptions.
    Science and religion are in harmony.
    Our economic problems are linked to spiritual problems.
    The family and its unity are very important.
    There is one God.
    All major religions come from God.
    World peace is the crying need of our time

    peace to u Maverick may God bless u
    peace and love to all jo
    am off the debate now
    love jo

  • http://kailash.balnac.com Kailash

    @ReenaDKL

    Well there can be two explanations. Either the family members are confused and do not see the boundary between language and religion like many in mauritius. Thats why they refuse to call themselves Marathi.

    Else, even worse, conversion has done its job and has succeeded in striping them of their culture. If that is the case, well effectively they are no longer Marathi. I think that this is a direct attack towards a culture hailing from an ancient civilization. :S

  • Torpedo

    @ Jay.

    No conversion by ISKCON? Heh! I have a very dear friend who joined them 5 years ago. Answer these:
    - why does he had to leave his family and live there (in their “ashram” most of the time?
    - why does he need to give a (good) fraction of his salary to them? Pareil couma mission salut & guérison etc…
    - why is he no longer playing ping-pong with us guys who are not members of his sect?
    - why did he forsake his long-time girlfriend and not marry yet?
    - why does he need to participate in (noisy) processions and distribute pamphlets? Pareil couma mission salut & guérison ki vinn tappe la-porte dimoune quand ou pliss pas bizin deranz ou.
    - why does he feel the perpetual need to say “Hare Krishna” in every single piece of conversation? Pareil couma Cehl Meeah so bann “inch’Allah” dans tou so parol pou justifier tousaki li dire/faire, mem saki mauvais.
    – why this radical change in his lifestyle?

    It’s my opinion, firm and resolute. And a fact: ISKCON/Hare Krishna is a sect like all the others i’ve mentionned in my comment. Full stop.

    If you are a converted to any sect (including ISKCON), bravo pou ou cerveau: si vremem ena TOUT dans enn (ou) livre, abé dire moi ki-fer pou ou pli bon ki pou moi, ou kifer pou moi pli pa-bon ki pou ou.

    N’importe ki raison ou pou donner, c’est lakoz samem mo rejette tout, mem saki pou ou.

    Merci pou ou’nn arrive ziska ici.

    Merci ou’nn perdi ou le-temps reponn enn ‘intellectuellement limité’ kouma moi. :-D

  • http://reenadkl.blogspot.com/ ReenaDKL

    @ Kailash:

    that i will have to ask them :)

  • http://lallmatie.com/blog bhoot

    Well said @ReenaDKL. @Yiu

    I read an article linking the origins of different religions e.g. Hinduism and Islam. Islam and Christianity. Christianity and Paganism. It’s interesting to find that there are mention of the other religion in ancient books.

    The problem today, I see is ignorance and the misuse of religion for person gain. The most flagrant example is our politicians, openly using communialism and caste systems (even if they themselves work together cross-religion). If you study religious books, they point to similar concepts and philosphies…

    As for Hindu associations, they don’t seem to be very active, given the laisser-aller nature of hindus (and ignorant priests). While Christian Islamic associations are more active in helping people spiritually and financially (or so I heard). So the fear in some hindus mind might as well be justified. I read an article where in India, there is an increase in the bulding of churches and mosques while some temples have not been restored and other controversies like Taj Mahal have sealed doors… Ah and so many gods in hinduism is such a misinterpretation…

    Those who convert out of pressure must be weak-minded, or tempted by the financial benefits. Otherwise, one would choose the religion he/she wanted.

    Like the British say, divide and rule!

    In the end, no matter what religion you are, it’s your heart that’s important.

    And the winner are always the people who own companies. They make the rules, not politicians, not spiritual leaders. We are capitalists :P

  • Maverick

    Watch till the end:

  • Torpedo

    @ Bhoot
    Trop bien dire! We are all new slaves to money, our overpowering deity. Show me anyone who does not touch money everyday :-)
    And who doesn’t say ‘thank you’ when he/she receives money…
    Imagine Louis de Funes: “Mon argent…”

  • Maverick

    Can any Jehovah witness is this thread enlighten the rest of us on the following:

    The Watchtower 11/1/96 p. 10 Look to Jehovah for Comfort: “One of the main operations of God’s spirit upon first-century Christians was to anoint them as adopted spiritual sons of God and brothers of Jesus. (2 Corinthians 1:21, 22) This is reserved for only 144,000 disciples of Christ. (Revelation 14:1, 3)”

    **reserved for only 144,000 disciples of Christ**

    And they also believe that the 144,000 chosen ones are already in heaven.

    I bet you did not know that before you joined. I fear you lot got scammed!

  • Maverick

    Joshua, Joshua, Joshua , where art thou?

  • Maverick

    Jo,

    Is he a self proclaimed prophet then?

  • Joshua

    @Maverick
    I do not want to enter a long debate at the moment. So i’ll be quick.

    What make me convert?
    First my mother was ill- she had psoriasis, psoriatic arthritis, high blood pressure, diabetes. She had search everywhere for a cure (doctors, alternative treatments)-even to “longaniste” but in vain.

    In fact it is a “pandit” who told him to turn to Jesus. In fairness he did not tell him to convert:

    Here’s the conversation at it happens (as far as I remember):

    Pandit:Beti ki bondier to priyer?
    MUM: “name of hindu god here”
    Pandit : Non arete priyer li. to conne leglise catholique? Ena ene missier lor la croix..li mem garcon bondier sa..Li pou pousse tou diable ek toi.

    Mum did not want to go to catholic church because of the fear of reject. Ena ene sel communaute dans leglise catholique, so she turned to a christian church (MISSION). Result, blood pressure and diabetes dissapeared, psoriatic arthritis stop, no more deformation (check psoriatic arthritis to find out how painful in can be).

    This does not mean that I was for conversion. Only my mother converted at this point and I was the persecutor in Chief.

    I’ll continue later..Mo ine plein ecrire :p

    PS: Don’t tell that God cannot heal. I know some of you might argue :D I’m talking to all believers not skeptics. Why should we pray to a god that cannot answer prayers. Yes I believe and I have seen God healing power.

  • http://reenadkl.blogspot.com/ ReenaDKL

    It’s the 3rd time someone in “mission” says that a pandit asked them to convert.

    It’s kinda funny coz all the pundits in Mauritius seem to see all hindus convert…hihihi!!! (Which i don’t buy!!!)

    PLEASE NOTE THAT : I am not judging nor contradicting anyone…

    AM SIMPLY GIVING MY OPINION, may it be GOOD, BAD or stupid..it remains my opinion.

    Thnx :)

  • http://prayers-request.blogspot.com/ jo

    @ Maverick said:
    Jo,

    Is he a self proclaimed prophet then?

    Bahá’u’lláh
    Messenger of God

    Bahá’u’lláh’s writings offer answers to the timeless theological and philosophical questions that have plagued humanity since antiquity–such as Who is God? What is goodness? and Why are we here? He also addresses the modern questions that have preoccupied 20th century thinkers, discussing the basic motivations of human nature, answering whether peace is indeed possible, and explaining how God provides for humanity’s security and welfare.
    In the middle of the last century, one of the most notorious dungeons in the Near East was Teheran’s “Black Pit.” Once the underground reservoir for a public bath, its only outlet was a single passage down three steep flights of stone steps. Prisoners huddled in their own bodily wastes, languishing in the pit’s inky gloom, subterranean cold and stench-ridden atmosphere.

    In this grim setting, the rarest and most cherished of religious events was once again played out: mortal man, out-wardly human in other respects, was summoned by God to bring to humanity a new religious revelation.

    The year was 1852, and the man was a Persian nobleman, known today as Bahá’u’lláh. During His imprisonment, as He sat with his feet in stocks and a 100-pound iron chain around his neck, Bahá’u’lláh received a vision of God’s will for humanity.

    The event is comparable to those great moments of the ancient past when God revealed Himself to His earlier Messengers: when Moses stood before the Burning Bush; when the Buddha received enlightenment under the Bodhi tree; when the Holy Spirit, in the form of a dove descended upon Jesus; or when the archangel Gabriel appeared to Muhammad.

  • http://prayers-request.blogspot.com/ jo

    @Maverick
    I do not want to enter a long debate

    How grievously Bahá’u’lláh suffered to regenerate the world! Wrongly accused, imprisoned, beaten, chained, banished from country to country, betrayed, poisoned, stripped of material possessions, and “at every moment tormented with a fresh torment”: such was the cruel reception that greeted the Everlasting Father, Him Who is the Possessor of all Names and Attributes. For two score years, until the end of His earthly days, He remained a prisoner and exile — persecuted unceasingly by the rulers of Persia and the Ottoman Empire, opposed relentlessly by a vicious and scheming clergy, neglected abjectly by other sovereigns to whom He addressed potent letters imparting to them that which, in His truth-bearing words, “is the cause of the well-being, the unity, the harmony, and the reconstruction of the world, and of the tranquillity of the nations”. “My grief”, He once lamented, “exceedeth all the woes to which Jacob gave vent, and all the afflictions of Job are but a part of My sorrows.”

    The voice halts for shame from continuing so deplorable a recitation, the heart is torn by mere thought of the Divine Target of such grief — grief no ordinary mortal could endure. But lest we give way to feelings of gloom and distress, we take recourse in the tranquil calm He induces with such meaningful words as these: “We have borne it all with the utmost willingness and resignation, so that the souls of men may be edified, and the Word of God be exalted.” Thus, the Wronged One, patient beyond measure, preserved a majestic composure, revealing His true Self as the Merciful, the Loving, the Incomparable Friend. Concentrating His energies on the pivotal purpose of His Revelation, He transmuted His tribulations into instruments of redemption and summoned all peoples to the banner of unity.

    my brother

    hope you had your answer tell me if you are sincere is He looking for fame or whatever gain just suffering 40 years my friends
    he was living as a prince as you know he left a wealthy position offered to Him chosen to suffer in the path of His Lord

  • http://lallmatie.com/blog bhoot

    Ah Jesus is not God! Read your scriptures well people in Mission. He is the son, but it is always mentioned to pray to God in Christianity. No other is God. He is a role model, similar to Hindu avatars and Prophet Muhamad, not a God! http://www.answering-christianity.com/at.htm

    Another person whom you might take as a self-proclaimed is Adi Dev from BrahmaKumaris, but he didn’t say to pray to him: he didn’t force or encourage people to join his cause. Only to help people, take only food for alms (unlike money today in Mauritius).

    Will human ever stop gossip? And deform original ideas?

  • Joshua

    @ bhoot
    I will make it simple for you

    The son of a cow is a cow
    The son of a dog is a dog
    The son of God is god

    The type of site you mention exist for all religion:

    http://www.answering-islam.org/
    http://answeringhinduism.com/

    So we can continue on a long debate ;)

    The topic was whether people are free to change religion or not. So there’s no need to go and say that my religion is better or not. if I do not find answer in my religion I am free to pray to whatever god I want.

  • http://reenadkl.blogspot.com/ ReenaDKL

    ahum..ahum…

    the son of a rapist is a rapist???

    the son of a “bitch” is a “bitch”?

    Ahum!!! ahum!!!

    the son of a cow is normally called a calf :) and becomes A BULL!!!! A son dear!!! not a daughter!!!!

    PLEASE NOTE THAT : I am not judging nor contradicting anyone…

    AM SIMPLY GIVING MY OPINION, may it be GOOD, BAD or stupid..it remains my opinion.

    Thnx

  • http://lallmatie.com/blog bhoot

    Yep, you’re right. We’re talking about changing religion. But misinterpretations are often used to convince people who wouldn’t have changed otherwise.

    Makes you think if the quota system on MBC, and the electoral system have their purpose or not…

  • http://reenadkl.blogspot.com/ ReenaDKL

    ahum!!!

    the son of a mother is a mother…

    the son of a woman is a woman…

    ???? my peanut sized brain (as some believe) is confused…

    PLEASE NOTE THAT : I am not judging nor contradicting anyone…

    AM SIMPLY GIVING MY OPINION, may it be GOOD, BAD or stupid..it remains my opinion.

    Thnx

  • Joshua

    @ Bhoot

    Yeah there is so much confusion in the world today. The only will be for you to take the book yourself and read.

    @ Reena

    This comment was meant for Bhoot not for you :)

    The son of a mother is human. That’s what I was trying to say. I know you understand what I meant but just for the sake of clarity. :P

  • http://neodil.blogspot.com Dilraj

    Hi people,

    Indeed very very interesting topic. Really.

    If I can suggest one idea about the so-called “decrease in hindus”…

    It’s I think because of electoral segmentation that the debate is on. If Hindus are on the decrease, the son of Mr Aneerood Jugnauth (and his fore-children) and the son of Dr Navin Ramgoolam (if ever one exists and his fore-children) won’t become PM of Mauritius. So simple.

    This is obvious as we’re moving from a democratic country to a dynastic country.

  • Torpedo

    @ Dilraj:
    “if ever one exists…”
    Vous avez un doute, mon cher? Au hasard, allez à Londres et demandez à parler à Mousieur Draboucan… :-)

    <>

  • http://FACEBOOK Mayeven

    EN VERITES D’APRET BANNES SANDANGES ENA PLUS KI 200,000 (MISSONS) A MAURICES …LOR ENE 1.2MILLIONS POPULUTIONS … MWA I SPENT ALL MINE TIMES WORKING AND SLEEPING …. PEOPLE ARE FREED TO WHAT EVER HE CONSIDER GOOD/BAD…

  • http://www.facebook.com/sawanm Sawan

    Hey! Jesus lived in India! Did you know that?

    I’ve watched this movie (http://www.jesus-in-india-the-movie.com/) (search it on rapidshare) and I’ve read this book: http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Lived-India-Before-Crucifixion/dp/1852305509
    (I’ve got it at Harry Bookshop at Port Louis (behind registrar building).

    All I can tell is that there are some evidences and it looks legit.

    Sorry for the off topic comment. ‘just sharing some information.

  • Kunal

    Well, i’m born as hindu but my religion is science… bitches :P

    I remember some hopeless old hags on their “Mission-Fail” used to come to my door in the hope that I would change to a christian lol!
    I think they want more people coming to their churches and to donnate more to help keep their churches standing lol…

    In life there’s much more to worrying about religion, i’ve given up on that :P To me personally, if someone forcefully falls into the trap of changing religion against their will (i.e: peer pressure, family pressure to change religion to marry another religion etc), then that person is just weak…

    My first russian gf once told me that her religion was gunpowder, since she liked guns and hunting was her fav sport :P

  • http://girishmungra.blogspot.com Girish

    Yeps believer or not, only the weak changes religion.

  • http://reenadkl.blogspot.com/2010/07/lifes-funny-things.html ReenaDKL

    @Kunal:

    lol abt your russian gf..she’s totally right!!! lol!!!

  • Winshaye

    mo ti ser 1 etudiante de 14 ans,
    kan li ti p atan bis lagar curepipe last week kan so lekol in fini,
    1 madam aproche ar li ek kumans lir ban page lablible r li!!!!!
    mo pena oken prob ar sa religion la, mai eski zot gagne droit fer sa???
    Eski z…ot gagne droit vin devan mo lakaz ek dir mw pu mw la pa bon ek mo bizin suiv pu li la?????
    man!! nxt time zot vin kot mw, mo koir mo filmE zot avk 1 camera cachE!!!
    mo pa dan oken assiosiation mw, mo religion mem mo pa suiv kuma bizin, mai mne truV devan mw, ki ki zot kav fer pu converti 1 dimune!!!

  • ReenaDKL

    @ Winshaye

    wow..they go that far? Fran fran tou!!! Am sure your sis was totally taken aback :(

    You know one thing? I have a Bhagvad Geeta at home. If someone comes to me, i will ask that person to come inside, offer something to drink, listen to him/her for 5 mins then go fetch my Bhagvad Geeta and start reading to them :P

    Why not!!!??? Si zot envi mo ecoute zot, zot bzin accepter ecoute moi osi!

  • http://nou-la-vie-en-gogot.com selven

    “anti conversion law ” <— anti democratic!

    you can't claim to be a democratic country and then say that people have no rights to change or believe in whatever they want…

  • Dvil

    mo pas krwar li si difficile ki ene dimoun dire tout simplement”non” : / franchment mo pas trouV kifer bizin faire ene issue lor ene zafer ki depane lor dimoun la selment.

  • http://reenadkl.blogspot.com/2010/09/my-iphone-4.html ReenaDKL

    Jamais VOH ti ene representant des hindous :P

    c juste en group voyous soutiré par PM!!!

  • Cyan

    Haha..I can but “lol” at this. I guess what they will ask next…

  • Bhooks

    All those who believe in religion are a bunch of loosers.

  • Maverick

    The current demographic state of Mauritius needs to be preserved. Since the independence, we did not have any military coups (unlike other African nations), no major political upheavals. The main reason
    is because the majority of the population are Hindus. There are only 2 countries in the world with a Hindu majority: Mauritius and India. India is the world’s biggest democracy.

    Not so long ago, when a section of the population was rioting, looting and burning Hindu businesses in targeted/coordinated attacks, the majority of Hindus remained calm. Some Hindus did use violence
    but then again, they had to defend their properties and businesses while spineless politicians remained idle.

    In the 1960′s Mauritius experienced another riot and this time another section of the population was involved and Hindus again were the victims. This time, the US/Uk soldiers from Diego Garcia were called in to restore peace.

    Politicians do know if Hindus were to become a minority, the paradise island will no longer be the same again. Hence the anti conversion laws.

    I blame the Hindu leaders. They are Corrupt, liars and “charlatans”. Instead of teaching the real meaning of Hinduism, they lined their pockets preaching Mickey Mouse stuff. This has created a generation of Hindus who have lost their cultural and religious identity. This is why they are an easy prey for door to door sect peddlars selling the dreams of attaining a place next to god in paradise. You must be naive to believe all your problems will suddenly vanish into thin air if you join the sect. If you believe in it, you have been brain washed

  • Mike

    The debate is NOT about a particular religion but the freedom to adhere to and express a religion. What we are seeing in Mauritius is a group claiming to represent a particular religion deciding to take the law into their own hands and threatening to stop people from converting by force. In any democratic society the group or association would be called to order by the authorities. They are inciting violence and hatred. Freedom of religion is enshrined in Article 18 of the UN Universal Human Rights Declaration which Mauritius has adopted. Therefore an anti-conversion law is in contradiction to the country’s legislation. If this country wants to be counted as a democratic country then the government should protect that people’s right. The alternative is going the route of a “banana republic” and seeing the considerable external financial and economic assistance halted. This country’s international reputation is at stake. The danger is that the PM’s hard work on the international scene to highlight the country’s stability could be severely jeopardized by a fanatical group causing internal tensions.

  • Gri

    @ Maverick,

    “Politicians do know if Hindus were to become a minority, the paradise island will no longer be the same again.”

    Do you mean that because Hindus aren’t in majority in Australia, Dubai, Singapore, and the USA (amongst other countries), there is no peace in those countries?

    On topic, the anti-conversion law is the biggest load of BS ever, instead of increasing human rights those morons want to restrict it. If you wanna convert religion it doesn’t concern anyone but you. It’s your choice.

  • TSJ

    Message to all missionaries: I already know that you firmly believe that your religion is the greatest in the world and that it is the only “true” religion as you believe that all other religions are “fakes”. And I also know that you will stop proselytizing only when all people will convert to your religion.

    Don’t come and knock at my door to waste my time and your time to tell me that. I already know your disgusting thoughts.

  • Maverick

    Mike, Mauritius’ stability relies on its current demography. If you tip the balance of power, I am afraid the PM will not have any Mauritian “stability” to sell abroad. This is an unchartered territory. Who knows what will happen if you allow it to go down this lane and pass the point of no return. Will you risk it? This law has already been passed in the Indian parliament. I did not see any international backlash, boycotts and economic sanctions.

  • Mike

    @Maverick, yes interesting comment you make. However, we cannot compare India to Mauritius. India is a huge country with its own resources and economic strength. It is able to withstand sanctions if imposed. Mauritius is a tiny island state which is dependent largely on external grants in various forms; either in cash or assistance. As an example the numerous and considerable EU grants (not loans) are subject also to a human rights clause in the agreements. So far Mauritius has met all the conditions, hopefully this will continue. It would be disappointing if a minority was the cause of a tarnished status for this country.

  • Maverick

    Gri,

    There is something paramount you are missing here. I am referring to the “current demography”. In Mauritius, the majority are Hindus

    The present majority on Australia are catholics. Do you really think their government will allow this to change? I will not bet on it. The same thing applies to Dubai and all the other countries you mentioned.
    No government will allow such a drastic change to happen.

    You have to agree these guys are simply sect/religious peddlars who use deception to lure vulnerable persons with the false promise of good health, wealth and happiness. People are most vulnerable in their moments of weakness. Do you think it is right for religious salespersons to go door to door to prey on the weak ? These guys have their own agenda.

    Ultimately the government has the responsibilty to protect the weak and vulnerable. These sect peddlars need to be stopped. I have no problem if someone decides to change their religion voluntarily and without any pressure or deception being applied on them. But having fanatic sect peddlars going door to door is unacceptable.

  • Gri

    Maverick,

    I agree to the part where you say those guys are sects/religious peddlers, no doubt about that (why else would they ask for money?).

    Where I don’t agree is where you say Mauritius will not be paradise if Hindus were to become in minority. What would happen if they became a minority naturally, that is by not reproducing as fast as the rest? Or what if Hindus convert to other faiths on their own? What laws will be asked for then?

    Until now Hindus have been in majority in Mauritius, from available data (the census is dated from the 1970’s), and this has not prevented two social instability outbreaks. India has also been victim of several social instability outbreaks although Hindus are in majority.

    As to your point about no government allowing a drastic change in demographics, well you are once again mistaken;

    Singapore had an original population of Malays, and currently Malays only represent about 20% of the population, the current majority is made up of Chinese immigrants. Australia has a current population of about 20million people which include several religions. Catholics are in majority yes, but the government plans on increasing the population to 35million people by allowing immigration, which will bring down the current Catholic majority.

    Mauritius did not have a native population; you cannot therefore say that Hindus are responsible of the peace keeping of Mauritius.

  • Maverick

    Gri,

    You have presented some good points but your Australian example is deeply flawed. The projected population growth expected by the year 2050 will be attributed only in part to net immigration. You have failed to take into account more women of child-bearing age, higher fertility rates and people living longer. You are also under the wrong impression that all the 15 million extra people will be immigrants. Furthermore you are under the assumption that all immigrants will be non-catholic.

    I have to disagree with you. Mauritian stability is closely linked to the Hindu population. Mind you, in all the cases of social instabilities experienced in Mauritius, Hindus were not the aggressors. They were the victims. They could have taken advantage of their numbers and retaliated on a large scale but Hinduism preaches peace and non violence. As usual, Hindus offered the other cheek and the unrest died down.

    For instance, the 2000 Fijian coup d’état aimed at removing elected PM Mahendra Chaudhry, was organised and supported by the Methodist church. In many cases where Hindus find themselves in minority, they are often persecuted – Uganda, Kenya, Pakistan.

    I am sure you will agree none of the minorities in Mauritius feel threatened or persecuted. They can all freely practice their religious beliefs without any harassment from the religious majority. We even elected a PM of Franco-Mauritian background!

    …and I cannot find any correlation between not having a native population and peace…

  • Torpedo

    @Yashvin:
    “a few hindu associations have been protesting and requesting an anti-conversion law to discourage people to change religion”
    How do you think these organisations will react to this?
    Ou cwar zott pou sonne pétar? Ou-bien célébrer ar enn “maha-yaj” :-)
    En tout cas, mo rappel mo ti gagne enn ti discussion ar enn commentateur de yashvinblogs lors ça thème de conversion en hindou-la, ek la, mo vraiment etonné trouve enn dimoune ki dire ki li’nn vinn hindou (self-proclaimed apparamment), ek swami par-dessus le marché! Vou-zott-o!! Poule pé gagne lé-dents!!

    @ReenaDKL:
    TTM’s enn issue politique ici dans Dodoland. Mo rappel enn Indien ti vinn travail kott nou pou programming pendant 4 ans, pendant lekel li’nn mari riye Dodolandais quand li’nn tann dir ki ici bann Tamil Telugu & Marathi considéré couma religion. Li’nn reponn moi: “Back in India, I live on the border line of Tamil Nadu and Andhra Pradesh and I speak both tamil and telugu fluently: If I came to Mauritius, how would your authorities classify me?” Mo pa’nn fouti reponn. Lerla li contignié: “What do you people of Indian descent pray here? Is it the Holy Trinity, or not? So, I’m to be defined as a Hindu, that’s it. I speak tamil, but I’m not ‘a Tamil’, I speak marathi, but I’m not ‘a Marathi’, there can be no definitions like that. Yes, there are many variations in the way we celebrate things like mariages, and prayers, but the essence is the same.” Li’nn terminé ar enn mari kalott pou nou: “You people here are so divided among yourselves, if your persist in this trend you may become more backwards than original Indians that came here in the first place…”

  • http://reenadkl.blogspot.com/2010/09/my-iphone-4.html ReenaDKL

    @Torpedo:

    i TOTALLY AGREE!!!

    Please all of you stop misunderstanding my point…i explained why i chose those specific terms and so…am done explaining :)

    cheers!

  • Sagitarius

    @Joshua: It’s many years since l last opened the Bible , but I do recall there a verse where Jesus said ”….you ,too ,can become Sons Of God ‘
    Surely that does not mean we can all become God .

    In another verse when asked how we should pray Jesus said prayers should be addressed to ‘Our Father’ [not to Jesus]

  • http://joshuaveerappah.com Josh

    @Sagitarius
    I was explaining on the topic of whether Jesus was God not implying that we could become God.

    Yes We pray to the father but in the name of Jesus.

  • Sagitarius

    @ Josh
    You missed my point . What I meant is that those verses seem to imply that Jesus did not consider himself God – and by ‘son of God’ he meant someone whose life does not stray from God’s path .

    People can stick to their ancestors’ religion , convert to another religion , turn their back to all religion or try all religions : I don’t think anyone should bother about that ,and I won’t bother .

    Anti-conversion laws and other such laws that define what people should think or believe has always been passed only by totalitarian regimes and Mauritius don’t belong to that club .

    I don’t think anybody has ever been forced to convert to any religion in Mauritius . But this religion referred to as ‘Mission’ has this practice of harassing everybody they come across . While this can be irritating for the healthy it becomes abusive when they turn to the ill ,the worried and the depressed .

    You can often see ‘mission’ visitors at hospitals ; they approach patients ,ask them if they would like to pray , ask them to say ‘I believe in Jesus’ and if they don’t ,the ‘mission’ visitors tell them they are doomed , they can’t be healed , ‘for there is no healing without Jesus’ .
    Now ,this is nothing short of blackmail

    I don’t think God has ever asked anybody to resort to emotional and spiritual blackmail to increase the number of converts .

  • ad black

    Folks, let’s face it: Hindi, Tamil, Telugu, Marathi, Gujrati, etc are all languages. There is no such thing as, like the MBC and other radios, “nos compatriotes de foi tamil, Telugu, Marathi, etc”. It simply does not exist – these are said just to please certain socio-cultural cum political leaders. In fact, all these people “”nos compatriotes de foi tamil, Telugu, Marathi, etc” are all Hindus, nothing less nothing more. To understand better, we should all know that all the mantras we chant – be it Hindus speaking Hindi, Tamil, Telugu, Marathi, Gujrati, etc – are in sanskrit; we all pray Raam, Ramen, Raamaa, Shiv, Siven, Doorga, Mariamen, Kali, Kaliamen, etc. stop following blindly these “semeurs de division” in the Hindus.

  • Aziz

    …in your dreams!

  • http://neodil.blogspot.com Dilraj

    Hello there!

    Actually, we can understand why there is a movement for anti-conversion laws. This is not only in Mauritius, but something with many countries and especially at the UN.

    For most religions, people need to have some “way” to say they are in that religion. Like for Christians, it’s called “bapteme” and for Muslims it’s called “bapteme musulman” associated with “circoncision”.

    Then there are things like “you can’t change to another religion” if you’ve been baptised (especially for certain religions).

    But there’s no such thing as “bapteme” for hindus because in old India there were only hindus in the past, it was natural that everyone on the land was a hindu. So no need for “bapteme”.

    But as we’re now in 2011, many hindus and many from other religions have converted to another religions. And many have something like “once you’re converted, you can’t go to another religion, not even return to your old religion”.

    That’s perhaps why there is this “anti-conversion” law that many people are thinking about.

  • Angel Ali

    Long live Agnosticism, Atheism and Humanism, if this is not vulgar :D

  • http://profiles.google.com/akashsky Akash Gura Goredo

    Read this piece well, and try to see who’s playing dirty tricks in this country:
    http://www.lexpress.mu/news/20640-blog-faux-departs.html

    So, the fear that the proportions making up the Mauritian diaspora is in fact pure myth, but we let politicians and their clique of wannabe’s lure us into unfounded fear of “the other”… When will we stop believing in their lies?