Should unemployed people be paid?

During the electoral campaign, a few parties announced that they will fight to give a compensation to unemployed people (“chomeur”).

I googled quickly and here is what I found about some of the criteria necessary to benefit from that money in some countries :

  • N’avoir pas quitté volontairement son emploi
  • Etre physiquement apte à exercer un emploi
  • Avoir suffisament cotisée
  • Etre inscrit comme demandeur d’emploi ou suivre une formation agréée
  • Etre à la recherche permanente et effective d’un emploi
  • Etre âgé de moins de 60 ans [+ d’autres condition ici et ici]

I really want to know what you people think about this?

  • Should “chomeur” be given an allowance just like it is the case in some countries?
  • Should there be any criterias (other than being not employed)?
  • While some people may genuinely be “unemployed” for some reasons, would not this encourage unemployment among certain groups of people?

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  • Le_Voyageur

    suis daccArd .. bizin ena ban criteres pou gagne sa pension chomeurs laa .. parceki ena ban dimoun ki exagerE ..

  • Yashvin,

    We have recently seen how fragile the global economy is, especially when we are talking about numerous negligence made by big banking corporations (Lehman Brothers issues leading to the global recession), over borrowing of certain countries (Greece), and in some cases even natural disasters (Icelandic volcano). The economy of pretty much all countries are linked with each other due to globalisation. Hence we can all be affected in a global recession. People can lose jobs in these situations, although they are physically able to work or have the relevant education.

    It may well be that someone voluntarily left his previous job, just before an economic crisis which he did not know will happen, and then searched for a career elsewhere – let’s say a foolish way of doing things, but six month later, he still does not have a job. If this person is now in debt and very less likely will be getting a job sooner, should we ignore his case? Not that he is actively looking for a career. You need a set of criteria but it is not so easy to define them. Nevertheless, here is my opinion of what this set of requirements should be:
    (1) Be unemployed (or earning less than RsY a month – way below minimum wage) and have less that RsXXXXX in bank accounts
    (2) Actively looking for work
    (3) Meet career consultant at Job centre every X weeks (whilst being unemployed)
    (4) Cannot refuse more than 3 job offers unless one cannot perform the tasks of the job concerned due to physical constraints, educational constraints or belief
    (5) Must attend all trainings provided by Job centre to one
    (6) If voluntarily left work, then cannot claim before Y months after leaving last position. After this period, all above conditions apply

    I am sure more conditions can be added on the list.

  • Mishy

    I agree that in genuine cases there should be a financial help..yes people who are not working but actively looking for jobs , should be getting something to get them going. but not to people who dont want to work and wanna kinda merry making all the time expect to get the pension/concession!but in saying so , we should also not make kinda a habit for people to rely on this pension thinking that ” oh well, who cares about a job when we sure at the end of the day we know that we gonna get something for doing nothing” !!!
    There should be some specific criteria met to be eligible and also keep people on check who are benefiting from this “service” —for eg : they could create a club kinda thing for these people, where they could meet and interact to see whats the job market like and also may b the gov could make arrangement for job placements for them -even if it is temporary or where may be people are given training n support to shape up sth they could do on their own like setting a business (huh like those with limited qualifications for eg)…or like people who are getting the financial help should be asked to like apply for a minimum number of jobs within certain time frame n provide some kinda evidence that they are genuinely n actively looking for jobs ..hmmm things like that 🙂 …

  • Should unemployed people be paid? >> No unless you’re say 35 and married to an unemployed wife, have kids and have limited financial assets.

    For the less than 30 —- ENTREPRENEURSHIP FTW! Select a field. Learn some new skills ( there are some financial plans for IVTB courses) if you don’t have any. Go to BOI and let them help.

  • TL

    N’avoir pas quitté volontairement son emploi (la police fine met dan kaso)
    Etre physiquement apte à exercer un emploi (capav saute muraille)
    Avoir suffisament cotisée (paye avocat avec drug money)
    suivre une formation agréée (intro to pickpocket 101)
    Etre à la recherche permanente (recherche victime dan chaque coin de rue)
    Etre ̢g̩ de moins de 60 ans Р(12-35 average age)

    do they qualify???

    (3/5)

  • ALL unemployed should be given COMPENSATION .. why ??

    Because it would be very good for this government OR any government to solve the problems of the unemployed. because right now if they do not anything for the unemployed they escape from their responsibilities, whereas if the economy is penalized and it is accounted in the budgets, they will have to doo all their best to make those unemployed to obtain a job..

  • Dvil

    reuionnais pas travail.. touche RMI et zot kave vine en vacances maurice, asT lauto… et biensur mo trouve sa injuste enver ban ki travail.

  • Sun

    Yes they should be paid. Main criteria’s you have quoted above. But you know, it will never happen here 🙂

  • Dvil

    and oh yeah… i dont think that unemployed persons except those who qualify for pension schemes and those who are “unemployed” or no more employed w.r.t to the employment rights act should be paid. especially some stupid craps i knw

  • I think a safety net is more appropriate than an “allocation chomeur”. Let me explain:

    Giving an allocation of 50% (quantum to be determined wrt to number of children, years of employment …) of the salary of someone who just lost his job (with monthly salary less than Rs 25 000 and depending of number of children … ) for 1 year, until he can find another job. This will certainly help his/her family support themselves during these difficult times. The allocation/subsidy is removed as soon as he/she finds another job. The money for this fund should be from a small tax deduced from both workers and employers.

    No allocation should be given to 25 year old or less. Those without employment should be given more formation (free maybe) or helped to set up a SME, like Fadil said.

  • Let’s come to the main reason why there is such allocation in France (and Reunion). It’s to avoid having people steal and beg. That’s the reason poor people in Mauritius are given cité to live in. If you want to give the same people an allowance, you’d have to use that money!… Not an easy or desirable thing to do. The idea of adopting this portion of society to preserve peace is mentioned in an ancient Hindu texts as well… One thing that must be controlled is that children must not be allowed to them. Either remove their responsibilities or legalise abortion (some tend to live on the allowance obtained for their children and make many many children who’ll grow to become what?)

    Faisal is quite right. TL is so pessimistic. Forcing unemployed to go for training in the field WHERE THERE IS MORE DEMAND can definitely reduce the lack of labour in some sectors. Cause, be realistic, so many IT companies complain of the lack of skilled labour in Mauritius? There tends to be a mismatch. And we talk of unemployed people? Just put up an ad for Flash programmers or iPhone programmers and you’ll barely get 10 applications out of which may be 1-2 have proper experience… I am sure there are other fields where there is a lack of labour to fill in. Unemployed can be encouraged by giving allowances only for those following courses/training in the desired fields. And no, degrees are not necessarily important here.

  • Akash

    Yashvin, merci pou to mette sa sujet-la lors la-tab.

    Mo zis ti envie partaz enn ti-dialog mo ti gagner ar mo larmé-sek environ 7 ans decela quand nou ti fek fini liniversite ek coummence travail. Nou ti mari estomaqué (eskiz ça ti-l’expression (trop) intellectuel, c parksi mo recterr Rex Fanchette ki’nn aprann moi sa) pou paye tax. Surtout la-kantité tax pou nou ti-lapéy, nou ti trouve sa exagéré terrib. Mais plis top enkor, quand nou’n réaliser ki tou sa tax-la ti pe servi pou finance logement sociaux ki alle donne dimoune ki dire ki zott misère, lerla, nou’n extra revolter quand nou’n decouvert bann derive, bann perversion, bann magouilles ki ena pou attribuer sa-bann logements sociaux-la.

    L’exemple plis flagrant c’est bann appartement NHDC Mon Choisy ki ti supposer pour bann middle-income earners mais ki’nn detourner par bann dimoune ki capave permette zott mett air-conditionner dans tous pieces bann lakaz-la. Nek fair enn tour pou voir, 95% la-dans fini modifier depi design original pou gagne balcon/barreaux la-fentt en fer forgé, garage couvert, modifications en tout genre ki dimann boukou kass. Enn lott l’exemple ti bann materiaux ki ti supposer donne dimoune misere mais ki Amédée Darga inn bizin monte au créneau pou denonce bann ONG parasite ki ti pe faire mardaille dans distribution.

    Bon, cut short lor-la, saki mo pe rode montrer c’est ki tout saki l’Etat rode faire pou bann plis demunis capave parett enn noble chose, mais ki toultemps bizin ena enn tas frauderr/parasite de tou l’espece pou perverti systeme-la.

    Eski a-koz sa ki bizin abandonner?

    Hmm, mo preferre pas essaye guette saki ena la-Réunion, la-bas c’est carrément le royaume de l’assistanat: mo collègue habituer alle la-bas pou visite so bel-mère. Ma-tante la gagne visite so kinésithérapeute 3 fois la semaine à 9h, so docteur à domicile 2 fois par mois, so pension verser carré-carré sans enn z’effort (pourtant li ti enn housewife avant li gagne so l’age), voyage en taxi gratis. So voisin c’est un jeune homme de 36 ans, ki roule en Renault Clio ki renouveler sak 3-5 ans, ki enn la-zournée nek téléphone partout partout pe soit-disant tracer pou gagne enn travail, ki visite Dodoland sak l’année (et gagne enn nouvo 35 ici sak fois li passe so vacances ici).

    Ki-ou dire? Ou enkor envie debatte lor commier parasite ki capave nourri ar enn systeme ki nek donner mais pas demann nargnier en retour? A la limite, donne dimoune ki meriter enn voucher pou acheter basic foodstuff and necessities, mais sans plus. Fauder pas ki zot depann ZIS lor la. Give a hungry man a fish, he’ll come back to you tomorrow: learn him to fish, he’ll become a fisherman.

    Moi, lakoz sa-mem mo trouve sa concept “unemployment benefit” la-mem enn pas en arrière.

    Merci pou ou l’attention!

  • Hmmm. There’s one thing that you seem to ignore. It is true that the system is present in France and it is good to know that you’re discussing about this. However, do you know where the government will find the money for the allowance, do you know how it is done in France?

    It’s a thing called “Charges Sociales” which is directly taken by the government off… any employed person’s salary (part-time, full-time, big money, small money). It is something like 1/5th of the gross salary that’s taken off. I don’t mind it here, it is my participation to the country but you should know that when allowances are granted, a lot of “mardaye” goes on and some people find ways to get that money. So think about it with these new parameters.

  • @Akash,
    To inn releve bann tres bon points lor bann froder. Mais si Government arret aide dimoune akoz bann froder, bann genuine pu souffer!

    Bann case fraude c’est acoz bann negligence de la part de certain ki travaille dans secteur public kan zot ou parseki certain procedures pas inn bien defini. Li pas ve dir ki raisons pu donne allocation somaz pas bon, mais plito ki facon pe appliker la pas bon. Ca ve dir ossi ki bizin evaluer bann dimoune ek procedir constantly pu ki system la ameliorer. Pu touzour ena mardaye mais systeme la bizin fer zot lavie difficile, c.a.d. ki zot reste ene extreme minorite ek si decouvert zot, sanction fort – lamand, prison….

    @Sachin
    Budget Government pas vinn zis lor tax ki nu peye. Compagnie ossi pey tax.

  • @Faisal the taxes I was talking about are a specific part on the taxes.

    Ici, kan to travay ena de tax ki pran lor to la paye “charges patronnales” ki enn parti tax to payer ek enn parti tax to patron pou payer a mem ekivalence ki saki to payer. Aprer to paye sa “charge social” la pou tou dimoun ki pa travay ek pou to pension ek oussi pou ki si toi to perdi to travay to gayn sa allowance la. Si tout long to lavi to pa perdi to travay, b to kotiser zis pou lezot. Lerla to travay de foi pou dimoun ki zamai pann travay.

  • Bhooks

    etre un peuple assister. Jamais de la vie.

    L’alliance lavenir p dir ou ki dams prosenn 5 ans nepli pu ena somaz. Abe ki pension somaz ou p koze.

  • I think it will go to those who lost their jobs and find themselves without a job:S, not for evry1,…from wat i heard..the argument was that if this is done, all people with low salary job will stop working and benefit from this uselessly and the youth (especially with poor education) wont be interested to work..:S…..so better if in case ur company closes down, based on some criteria u will get an allocation plus some help till u get a new job…Ene gran dimoune kine dir..pa mwaa!!
    If you throw all the foreigners working in this country, you have 4000 jobs for Mauritians…dont know wat they are waiting for to train those in need:S…as usual..Keep Waiting….

  • Bernardo

    bhoot said:
    Let’s come to the main reason why there is such allocation in France (and Reunion). It’s to avoid having people steal and beg. That’s the reason poor people in Mauritius are given cité to live in.

    Do you have concrete facts to support what you said? Or is this only your own and personal view? I recommend you do some research before stating things

  • Yashna

    I believe food stamps would be a much better idea than giving out money, this would definitely reduce the risk of someone taking advantage of the system.
    And about the conditions, the government should check the person’s spouse’s earnings.

  • ReenaDKL

    arrrgggg….

    it will become like france n reunion island….

    there will be lazy asses who will benefit from it n many who will abuse 🙁

  • Well said, wait the last budget did something wonderful about contribution to poverty… CSR!

    Companies pay a lot more taxes than individuals like us if you check MRA’s annual report 2008/9. More than Rs 26 billion – http://mra.gov.mu with a tax rate of only 15% on profits (developed countries vary 25-40%) CSR means you contribute 2% of your book profit to an approved NGO. These NGO’s are proven to have run some worthful projects. 2% of profit? doesn’t that make nearly Rs 3.5 billion that can potentially go to combatting poverty, increasing education, health etc.

    Some say it has been proven that NGO’s make a better job than the government… To me it does make sense, since NGO’s are usually managed like companies, they are accountable to give reports of their spending to their sponsors (companies), have plans for their projects etc. The Rotaract (and their parent Rotary), Lions and JCI are groups that have been doing good things in this step for years in Mauritius.

  • Sagitarius

    Donn pension bann somer ? Kifer non !

    Bann ki kontan kas dan pos , pa anvi travay : pa donn nannye !

    Bann ki pe rod travay , an atandan zot gagne ;

    Donn zot Rs 2500 pandan – ? enn an ?

    En esanz , fer zot donn 12 hr zot ekses letan lib par semenn pou ranne enn bann tipti servis kouma netway la rivyer , fer rebwazman , ramass bann gro salte [vye frizider ,televizion ,etc] ki bord pa ramasse e ki dimoune zet partou , may lera , lassas korbo ek pizon , tay banbou e al sers gaz bann vye dimounn ki pena personn fer sa, etc

    Trouv enn sistem pou ki pendan sa period la , zot gagn ranseyma kot travay pe ouver . Biro travay gaspiyaz: boukou vre somer pa met lipye laba [ pa kone kifer ] e boukou seki anrezistre kom somer laba pe travay depi sipa komye banane .

    Pou finans tousala , taxe Akash ek lezot z’elev Rex Fanchette impe plis , zis pou rapel zot ki tax pa servi zis pou ranz lakaz site , me ousi pou lopital ,lapolis , pompye , l’otorout ek lezot sime , ledikasyon [liniversite tou ladan] , foncsyoner ,minis [ including Navin’s visit to Obama’s ,etc ],pensyon vye ,pensyon vev . Kapav ousi fer TVA vinn 16% . Ler pas lakes pa pou tro remarke e li pli amizan pou konte .

    Lots of people [pa pe koz Akash la] make far-reaching assertions quoting -or misquoting – religious scriptures . I knew to a guy [Yanesh] who was an outspoken racist . He was speccially happy that [a few years ago] some creoles who had bought tickets for the indian singer Himesh were -before his eyes- refunded and refused entry into Swami Vivekananda Conf. Center . I gave him my english translation of Manu Smriti and never heard of him again .

  • Well said, wait the last budget did something wonderful about contribution to poverty… CSR!

    Companies pay a lot more taxes than individuals like us if you check MRA’s annual report 2008/9. More than Rs 26 billion – http://mra.gov.mu with a tax rate of only 15% on profits (developed countries vary 25-40%) CSR means you contribute 2% of your book profit to an approved NGO. These NGO’s are proven to have run some worthful projects. 2% of profit? doesn’t that make nearly Rs 3.5 billion that can potentially go to combatting poverty, increasing education, health etc.

    Some say it has been proven that NGO’s make a better job than the government… To me it does make sense, since NGO’s are usually managed like companies, they are accountable to give reports of their spending to their sponsors (companies), have plans for their projects etc. The Rotaract (and their parent Rotary), Lions and JCI are groups that have been doing good things in this step for years in Mauritius.

  • Torpedo = Sky = Dodo

    Wai, Sagitaius, genuine case bizin donner, mais pas nek donner sans aukenn garantie ki dimoune-la pas essaye tire li-mem depi dans so difficulté. Oui, donne li enn ti-cash voucher pou manger, ça li clair, éna ki pas capve assure zot enn repas convenable, péna problem.
    Mais ena enn tas ki pou déclare mizerr ki pou contente zot samem tou les jours sans essaye progresser par zott mem. La, c’est vraiment kott mo pas dakor: si ça voucher-la garanti pou zott à-vie, ça vé-dir ki zott péna aukenn target pou sorti dépi dans zott condition.
    Alor pou évite ça, fauder donne enn target: voucher-la pou gagner pou enn certain temps selment, et capave pou renouveler SI bann demarche genuine pou gagne travail pas pe abouti. Sagitarius to’nn bien dire!
    La, pas vinn dir moi pena travail, parski nek ena pou faire enn tour lor bann la-cour lizinn ou bien bann chantiers construction: nek guetter commier chinoises, bangladaises, indiens etc ki pe faire manual work ek pe trouve moyen avoy cass dans zot pays pou aide zot fami… Sinon, guette dans Brésil: paye dimoune pou trier saleté avant ki rentre dans landfill. C’est enn point de départ pou enn dimoune ki envie aide li-mem.

    Mais si Sagitarius so gouvernement nek pense taxer zis bann saki donne de-peine (légalement, pas sa-bann tracerr dans tou coin la-ri ki gagne par millions non-taxable) pou apprann ek rode contribuer dans progrès pays sans montrer ki ena good management of public funds, bein pas vinn déplore brain-drain lerla. Weh, fauder comprend mo cher compatriote, ki quand to pe fek debuter dans la-vie, to bizin enn tiginn breathing space (c’est exactement ça ki pe rode donne bann dimoune ki dans le besoin) pou commence stabilise to la-vie. Li pa normal ni juste taxer enn ti-zeness ki pe fek gagne recompense de son z’effort au mem niveau ki enn top executive la quarantaine passée. Mais mo dakor ar toi ki bann saki zott revenu bien plis fort ki la moyenn paye taxe pliss ki lezott. Oui, to ena raison.

    Dommage ki Sagitarius inn bizin croire ki bizin mett enn dosage ethnique dans le débat (mo pa’nn koz lakaz cité, Himesh, sipaki). Mo vrai prénom c’est… Non, laisse tomber, li pas nécessaire dans enn déabt citoyen, et Sagitarius inn faire enn wrong assumption. Dommage, mo’nn bien apprécier so bann très bon l’idée citoyen… Si to pose candidat, Sagitarius, (mem indépendant) to garanti gagne mo vote!

    By the way, merci Rex Fanchette! 🙂

  • Sagitarius

    Torpedo = Sky = Dodo

    0% dozaz etnik . Mo ti pe koz lakaz cite akoz Akash dir ki pe overtax li pou ranz lakaz cite pou dimounn ki deklar mizer.[ Mone lir tro vit ,mo pa ti bizin mensyonn R.Fanchette . Mo espere li pa lir sa paz la .]

    Mo pense linn simplifye inpe tro . Monn nom li pou sting li impe . Pa plis ki sa .

    Sinon , 1-2 ti presizyon lor lakaz cite .

    Pa zis kreol [kirpip ,an tou ka ] ki res dan cite .
    Lakaz cite pa gratis [depozit Rs30000 mo kwar,plus Rs???/mwa]
    Enn model so salon 9×11 [pli tipti ki mo ti lakwizinn sere ]

    Mo kwar twa ,mwa ,ek dimounn res dan cite ena mem drwa aste climatizer , yacht ,helicopter ,etc [malerezma mo ena kas pou zis 1-2 zafer dan etc la !!]

    Mo dernye paragraph la mo ti ekrir sa akoz ti trouv enn de comments ena bann ti souzantandi – kouma dir sa? rasist.
    Pou mwa li pa enn problem pou koz ras zistema parski mo pa rasist .

    Pa zis bann ti zenes ,bann ton ousi amerde nek peye peye mem ,alor ki seki ena tro la kumadir sagrin pou pran zot kas.Ti bizin reviz bann barem tax .

    Nou aret koz dan vid : nou sey propoz 1-2 sif

    Bann ki gagn -Rs400000/an pins zot impe mwins
    Bann gagn Rs400000-700000 res parey
    Bann gagn laho Rs700000 mord zot kouma enn pitboul

    Enn lot propozisyon lor tax lor titraz larak :
    Taxe rom ,etc Rs7/degre/lit [btey rom pre Rs300] e pa taxe labyer !

  • Torpedo

    @ Sagitarius
    Enough said, you win my vote! Great proposal for the income tax grid. I propose an amendment/complement to it to get more money in a “fairer” way:
    VAT on all items:
    0 – 100: 1%
    101 – 500: 2%
    501 – 2,000: 5%
    2,001 – 10,000: 10%
    10,001 – 50,000: 15%
    >50,0001: 25%
    Ki ou dire? Richer people are made to pay more because they can afford to pay for obtaining things of large value. That’s the logic. Now, what we must also aim for is the proper management of this money. The greatest challenge is to ensure that the money is used properly, not wasted in “inefficiencies” (like Empowerment sipaki: 55% so budget alle fini dans salaires bann fonctionnaires ki travail la-bas!)

  • Sagitarius

    Torpedo,
    Another good idea ! Multiple % levels for VAT ! I think there can be a simpler version : 20% VAT on items worth Rs50,000 or more and let items priced below Rs50,000 be taxed at the actual 15% . Mauritian can be ungrateful when made to pay less and open their big mouth only to say ‘Wey ! Enn bon bidze !’ when made to pay more .

    Are the empowerment programs that inefficient ? 55% of the programs’ budget is a surprisingly large amount to spend on salaries !

    Proper management ? Governments make plans ,map out policies , then entrust those policies to civil servants , so that they can devote their time on more important duties – like bragging and quarreling in Parliament .
    Governments come and go , but the civil servant is glued to his post until he reaches retirement age . Organize seminars on efficiency : he will listen passively ,then go back to his usual routine .
    One thing the system does efficiently is maintain itself .
    New blood does not bring much change . The new young loafer quickly learns the art of getting busy doing nothing from the old loafer . The young enthusiast ,coming to work for the first time – full of goodwill ,wanting to serve his country – soon finds out he has become part of an heavy apparatus and must go with the pace .
    I am afraid we’ll have to make do with our bureaucracy’s heaviness for a long time .

    The new Health minister Mrs M.Hanoomanjee seems intent at setting things right in her department .
    There’s one thing she could do that would make a few unemployed happy : hire some drivers .
    At Victoria [Candos] Hospital you can see about a dozen idle ambulances on the parking , while those in service often carry more patients than they are designed to .
    The [Rose Hill based] District Nurse sometimes cuts down on service because of unavailable tranport .
    The health service badly needs more drivers ! I hope this comment somehow manage to reach the minister .

  • Torpedo

    @ Sagitarius:
    Wai! 100% dakor. Tant ki ena wastage dans implementation, tou Master Plan ress enn plan mem, intent of action gets diluted and distorted.

    Nou’nn faire enn zoli match ping-pong, hein? 🙂
    Mais personne pas pe continuer ajoute di-blé dans moulin-la! Eski nou ena monopole de l’opinion?

  • khush jiraiya

    N’avoir pas quitté volontairement son emploi. If can’t even get a first job then?

  • From what I learnt recently, the government is running a sponsorship programme which finances up to 50% of the salary to be paid to the fresh graduate. In this way, private companies can hire fresh graduates, train them for work while paying only half of the salary.